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Ruling out the one born in Stockport - his mother's maiden surname was Howell.

Father wasn't Ernest, however:

Marriages Mar 1864 (>99%)
Herbert Isaac Staines 3a 23
Howell Ruth Staines 3a 23

same as you couldn't find him on any census apart from 1911 living in warrington with family ??

Yes, exactly.

Makes me wonder if he was born under another name ?
Maybe father's supposed name was invented for respectability reasons ??

Or he was at least using another name until his marriage?
Might have been abroad in the army in 1901.

Can anyone make out what his father's occupation is, on the marriage cert?

Looks like Cotton Potton.

Another army record for him - different place of residence, but same army number:


Ernest Herbert
in the UK, WWI Pension Ledgers and Index Cards, 1914-1923
Name: Ernest Herbert
Gender: Male
Rank: C/S M
Birth Date: 1878
Residence Place: Leigh Lancs
Military Service Region: North West, England
Discharge Date: 25 Mar 1919
Service Number: 6583
Regiment: S. Lancs
Title: Pension Record Cards
Description: Pension Record Ledger
Reference Number: 3/MH/No.1539
Next of Kin:
Name Relation to Soldier
Ernest Herbert


Maybe someone with a sub to Fold3 would be able to discover more.

And another:

Ernest H Herbert
in the UK, WWI Service Medal and Award Rolls, 1914-1920
Name: Ernest H Herbert
Military Year: 1914-1920
Rank: Company Sergeant Major
Medal Awarded: British War Medal and Victory Medal
Regiment or Corps: Prince of Wales's Volunteers (South Lancashire) Regiment
Regimental Number: 6583
Sub Unit: Time Serving
Previous Units: 6583 2nd. S. Lan. R. W.O. Cl. II, 6583 6th. S. Lan. R. W.O. Cl. II, 6583 6th. S. Lan. R. W.O. Cl. II, 6583 2nd. S. Lan. R. W.O. Cl. II

Ernest H Herbert
in the British Army WWI Medal Rolls Index Cards, 1914-1920
Name: Ernest H Herbert
Regiment or Corps: 2/S Lan Regt
Regimental Number: 6583

First served in France. Date of entry therein: 22/4/1915

Thanks a lot for your help you've been amazing.
Ive not heard of Fold 3 before only got Ancestry but will be able to find some military records now with his regimental number.

Does anyone in the family happen to remember on what date Ernest H celebrated his birthday ? - I have a date of birth for someone I am following but I can't connect them as yet.

Thanks,

Dea x

First name(s) Ernest Henry
Last name Herbert
Birth year 1876
Death year 1927
County Middlesex
Place Heston
Age 51
Dedication St Leonard
Inscription
West side middle tier: ERNEST HENRY HERBERT / of Hounslow / who passed over the border / Dec. 9th 1927, aged 51 / "Loved by all".

The National Archives have South Lancs Regiment archives - might be worth investigating;

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C151388

Name: Annie Elizabeth Bunce
Gender: Female
Marriage Date: 2 Jun 1912
Marriage Place: Toltterham
Document Year: 1917
Residence Place: 38 Edenborough Rd, Wood Green
Relationship to Soldier: Spouse
Form Title: Information Supplied By Recruit
Other Records:
Family Members:
Name Relation to Soldier
Ernest Herbert Self (Head)
Annie Elizabeth Bunce Spouse
George Ernest Herbert Herbert Child
Ernest Henry Herbert Child


Name: Ernest Herbert
Gender: Male
Marriage Age: 24
Record Type: Marriage
Birth Date: abt 1888***************************************
Marriage Date: 2 Jun 1912
Marriage Place: All Hallows, Tottenham, Haringey, England
Father: George Herbert*************************************
Spouse: Annie Elizabeth Bunce
Register Type: Parish Register

Baptism of George

Name: George Earnest Walter Herbert
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 23 Mar 1913
Baptism Place: Saint Benet Fink, Tottenham, Haringey, England
Father: Earnest Herbert Herbert. Occ: Railway Porter
Mother: Annie Elizabeth Herbert

There's also this:


E H Herbert
6583
Company Serjeant Major
1908
South Lancashire Regiment

https://www.forces-war-records.co.uk

The Ernest Herbert who married Annie Elizabeth Bunce (married in 1912), was in the "SW Batt Bedford Rgt" in 1917, whereas Ernest Herbert Herbert was in South Lancs Regiment at least 1915-19 (and earlier).

Ernest Herbert
in the British Army WWI Service Records, 1914-1920
Name: Ernest Herbert
Gender: Male
Birth Date: abt 1889
Enlistment Age: 28
Marriage Date: 2 Jun 1912
Marriage Place: Toltterham
Document Year: 1917
Residence Place: 38 Edenborough Rd, Wood Green
Regiment Name: SW Batt Bedford Rgt
Number of Images: 8
Form Title: Certificate


On the marriage cert of Annie and Herbert, however, his name is given as Ernest Herbert Herbert on the image. He's a bachelor and a porter

But Ernest and Beatrice were still together in 1915 .

Birth of the son Ernest as shown on the 1939 Register posted on page 1:

HERBERT, ERNEST mms WHITNALL
GRO Reference: 1915 D Quarter in LEIGH Volume 08C Page 452


and at the same time the other Ernest and Annie had their son Ernest:

HERBERT, ERNEST HENRY mms BUNCE
GRO Reference: 1915 M Quarter in EDMONTON Volume 03A Page 1008

So unless Ernest Herbert Herbert had a very busy double life, they aren't the same person.

The man who married Bunce was - allegedly - at least ten years younger that the man being researched.

This is what I have been following but I need fresh eyes please!

There is no trace of Ernest Herbert Herbert before 1911 so I was working on a probable change of name somewhere:

I liked the look of this one:

Births Jun 1876 (>99%)
SOLE Ernest Herbert Birkenhead 8a 514


SOLE, ERNEST HERBERT TIPPER
GRO Reference: 1876 J Quarter in BIRKENHEAD Volume 08A Page 514


-March 11th at 23, Alfred-road, Claughton, wife of Ernest S. Sole, son.
13 March 1876 - Liverpool Daily Post - Liverpool, Lancashire, England


With family on 1881:
1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census
7, Woodchurch Lane, Tranmere, Birkenhead, Cheshire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Ernest S Sole Head Married Male 33 1848 **Cotton Broker** St Neots, Hampshire, England
Emma C Sole Wife Married Female 30 1851 - Liverpool, Lancashire, England
***Herbert E Sole Son Single Male 5 1876 - Birkenhead, Cheshire, England
Arthur L Sole Son Single Male 1 1880 - Birkenhead, Cheshire, England
Emily Burr Servant Single Female 40 1841 Gen Serv Frome, Somerset, England
Sydney Davies Servant Single Female 18 1863 Gen Serv -


Parents' marriage:
Marriages Jun 1875 (>99%)
SOLE Ernest Samuel Wirral 8a 627 Scan available - click to view
Tipper Emma Clare Wirral 8a 627 Scan available - click to view


(sorry - I don't know why FMP are now transcribing all in capitals !!! It makes things a bit difficult to follow, but..............)
1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census
BERESFORD ROAD, OXTON, BIRKENHEAD, Cheshire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
ERNEST S SOLE HEAD MARRIED Male 43 1848 COTTON MERCHANT Huntingdonshire, England
EMMA C SOLE WIFE MARRIED Female 38 1853 - Lancashire, England
ARTHUR L SOLE SON - Male 11 1880 SCHOLAR Cheshire, England
J BEATRICE TIPPER WIFES SISTER SINGLE Female 32 1859 LIVING ON HER OWN MEANS Lancashire, England
MARY MURPHY SERVANT SINGLE Female 60 1831 COOK DOMESTIC SERVANT Wexford, Ireland
ADA BROSTER SERVANT SINGLE Female 25 1866 HOUSEMAID DOMESTIC SERVANT Tranmere, Cheshire, England


Ernest Herbert was not with them in 1891 but I believe this to be him:

Ernest Herbert Sole
in the 1891 England Census

Name: Ernest Herbert Sole
Gender: Male
Age: 15
Relationship: Boarder
Birth Year: 1876
Birth Place: Birkenhead
Civil Parish: Fairfield
Residence Place: Fairfield, Fairfield, Derbyshire, England - Park Hurst School*
Sub registration district: Buxton
ED, Institution or Vessel: 2
Neighbors:
Piece: 2778
Folio: 45

Parkhurst School was a top class private school so I am not sure how he ended upo there? : - This would certainly prepare him for a career in the Army.

PARK HURST SCHOOL, BUXTON. A HIGH-CLASS SCHOOL FOR SONS OF GENTLEMEN Principal—D. JOHNSTON, M.A.»

PARK HURST SCHOOL, BUXTON. Principal; D. JOHNSTON. M.A. Second Master: F. DUNCAN. Esq. French Master; Mons. E. DELAYEN.
A limited number of Pupils are prepared for the Universities. Public Schools, Military, Civil Service, and other Examinations or
Commercial
24 July 1880 - Buxton Advertiser - Buxton, Derbyshire, England


By 1901 he was married to Edith with a couple of children (1 child was with his grandmother - Eric Ernest):

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census
397, BOROUGH ROAD, BIRKENHEAD, Cheshire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
JOSEPH J FERNLEY HEAD MARRIED Male 67 1834 LIVING ON OWN MEANS Stockport, Cheshire, England
ELIZABETH M FERNLEY WIFE MARRIED Female 48 1853 CONFECTIONER Isle of Man, Isle of Man
ALFRED S FERNLEY SON WIDOWER Male 27 1874 BOARDING HOUSE SERVANT Isle of Man, Isle of Man
ELIZA A FERNLEY DAUGHTER SINGLE Female 21 1880 CONFECTIONER Tarvin, Cheshire, England
ERNEST H SOLE BOARDER MARRIED Male 25 1876 COTTON SALESMAN Oxton, Cheshire, England **
EDITH SOLE BOARDER MARRIED Female 32 1869 - Taunton, Somerset, England
BASIL W SOLE BOARDER - Male 2 1899 - Formby, Lancashire, England



Meanwhile, his parents details .....


1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census
THE LAURELS, BACK OF THE TOWN, WEAVERHAM, WEAVERHAM CUM MILTON, NORTHWICH, Cheshire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
ERNEST S SOLE HEAD MARRIED Male 53 1848 GENERAL MERCHANT St Neots, Huntingdonshire, England
EMMA C SOLE WIFE MARRIED Female 50 1851 - Liverpool, Lancashire, England
ERNEST E SOLE GRAND SON - Male 3 1898 - Seacombe, Cheshire, England
ARTHUR L SOLE SON SINGLE Male 21 1880 APPRENTICE TO WOOL MERCHANT Oxton, Cheshire, England


Probable death for his father:
Deaths Dec 1905 (>99%) (note - another connection to Hampshire)
Sole Ernest Samuel 57 Southampton 2c 5


His widowed mother, still with 'Herbert's first son, went to live in Hampshire:
1911 Census For England & Wales
Hanga West Road Bournemouth, Bournemouth, Hampshire & Dorset, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Emma C Sole Head Widow Female 60 1851 Private Means Liverpool Lancashire
Eric Ernest Sole Grandson - Male 13 1898 School Sacombe Cheshire
Joseph(Josefa) A E Ogileria Niece Single Female 29 1882 Private Means Exmouth Devonshire (surname is OGILVIE !!)


I can find no further trace of Ernest Herbert Sole, Edith, or Basil after the 1901 census..... BUT, I 'can find Ernest Herbert Herbert and his address is Bournemouth which is where the other 'Sole' one's mother ends up !!!

I have lots more 'bits and pieces' but cannot tie this down to 'fact'.

I feel sure this is a case of 'change of name' but I can't work out why. - Can anyone see anything to either confirm all this or 'smash it out of the water' so I don't have to follow it any more??? - ... PLEASE!! ;-) :-S :-D

Dea x

Snap, Dea - Mr Sole has also been my favourite for Ernest pre-1911.

Also , the army record posted on 17 June @ 19:40 gives his place of residence as Bournemouth.

But how any of it can be proved, I don't know!

We 'know' it's him, don't we ?????? ;-)

We just need to prove it now!!!

I also noted that you posted a birth record for the son William:

William Onslow Herbert
in the India, Select Births and Baptisms, 1786-1947
Name: William Onslow Herbert
Gender: Male
Race: White
Birth Date: 17 Jan 1908
Baptism Date: 2 Feb 1908
Baptism Age: 0
Baptism Place: Ranikhet, Bengal, India
Father: Ernest Herbert Herbert
Mother: Beatrice



Note the middle name - ONSLOW............

This could of course be a red herring but it would seem that Ernest H Sole's paternal grandparents were called ANSLOW ??

His father's birth:

SOLE, ERNEST SAMUEL ANSLOW
GRO Reference: 1847 M Quarter in ST NEOTS Volume 14 Page 251

I have followed him right back - this Ernest also went away to Boarding School - His father was a surgeon practitioner and they look to have been quite wealthy.

It really does all fit - we just need to prove it!!

Dea x

Can't see Basil's birth, either.

Marriages Sep 1895 (>99%)
Jones Edith Liverpool 8b 309
Sole Ernest Herbert Liverpool 8b 309


Births Jun 1898 (>99%)
SOLE Ernest Eric Birkenhead 8a 572

This birth doesn't seem to show up on GRO website to verify mms, although I'm assuming he's the other son.