Find Ancestors

Wm, born c1786, and his son Richard, born c 1826, are from Prestwich in Lancashire. They are both alive at the time of the 1841 census, later records confirm this. However I cannot find them anywhere in the UK on the census. The rest of the family is recorded at home.
Any ideas please !?

Welcome to the boards Peter.

Who and where are the rest of the family in 1841? Can you post the census

What is likely to be William's occupation?

Is this the baptism, just for ref

Baptism: 27 Feb 1825 St Mary the Virgin, Prestwich, Lancashire, England
Richard Berry - [Child] of William Berry & Mary
Born: 20 Feb 1825
Abode: Whitefield
Occupation: Weaver
Baptised by: Oswald Sergeant
Register: Baptisms 1821 - 1828, Page 146, Entry 1167
Source: LDS Film 2113204

1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Half Acre, Oldham cum Prestwich, Bury, Lancashire, England

First name(s) Last name Sex Age Birth year Birth place
Mary Berry Female 53 1788 Lancashire, England
John Berry Male 19 1822 Lancashire, England
Mary Berry Female 14 1827 Lancashire, England

Baptism: 27 May 1827 St Mary the Virgin, Prestwich, Lancashire, England
Mary Berry - [Child] of William Berry & Mary
Born: 20 May 1827
Abode: Whitefield
Occupation: Labourer
Baptised by: Philip Wharton
Register: Baptisms 1821 - 1828, Page 243, Entry 1937
Source: LDS Film 2113204

Baptism: 21 Apr 1822 St Mary the Virgin, Prestwich, Lancashire, England
John Berry - [Child] of William Berry & Mary
Born: 24 Mar 1822
Abode: Whitefield
Occupation: Labourer
Baptised by: Thomas Johnson
Register: Baptisms 1821 - 1828, Page 32, Entry 255
Source: LDS Film 2113204

If correct?

Marriage: 18 Nov 1850 St Mary the Virgin, Prestwich, Lancashire, England
Richard Berry - 25, Carter, Bachelor, Halfacre Pilkington
Charlotte Redford - (X), 22, Weaver, Spinster, Halfacre Pilkington
Groom's Father: William Berry, Labourer
Bride's Father: William Redford, Weaver
Witness: John Berry; Mary Ann Pickstone, (X)
Married by Banns by: Joah B. Wakefield Curate
Notes: 451 [entered in the margin]
Register: Marriages 1850 - 1851, Page 103, Entry 205
Source: LDS Film 2356189

John Berry is a witness to the marriage, image on FMP

Richard Berry is with Redford family in 1851, just for my ref

Not seeing them in 1841 ( on FMP)

Richard Berry
United Kingdom, Merchant Navy Seamen Records, 1835-1941

Name:
Richard Berry
Event Type:
Military Service
Event Year Range:
1845-1854
Event Place:
United Kingdom
Birthplace:
Lancashire
Birth Year:
1826

William Berry
England, Manchester, Parish Registers, 1603-1910

Name:
William Berry
Event Type:
Burial
Event Date:
21 Oct 1841
Event Place:
St Mary, Prestwich, Lancashire, England
Age:
55
Birth Year (Estimated):
1786

1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Yew Tree House, Pilkington, Bury, Lancashire, England


William Redford Head Married Male 59 1792 Cotton Weaver Whitefield, Lancashire, England
Ann Redford Wife Married Female 49 1802 Cotton Weaver Whitefield, Lancashire, England
John Redford Son Widower Male 31 1820 Labourer Whitefield, Lancashire, England
Martha Redford Daughter Unmarried Female 21 1830 Cotton Weaver Whitefield, Lancashire, England
William Redford Son Unmarried Male 15 1836 Dyer Whitefield, Lancashire, England
Henry Redford Son - Male 13 1838 Winder Whitefield, Lancashire, England
Edmund Redford Son - Male 11 1840 Scholar Whitefield, Lancashire, England
Joseph Redford Son - Male 9 1842 Scholar Whitefield, Lancashire, England
Richard Berry Head Married Male 25 1826 Cotton Weaver Whitefield, Lancashire, England
Charlotte Berry Wife Married Female 23 1828 Cotton Weaver Whitefield, Lancashire, England
Sarah Ann Berry Daughter - Female 4 1847 - Whitefield, Lancashire, England

Thanks everybody.
It is the reference in the 1841 census that I’m looking for. Or a reason that father and son would both be missing.
Thanks again

Peter, We do realise it's the 1841 census you are looking for, but we try and work round ( back and forth) to see where they might be if not with family. However can't spot them anywhere on it, it may be that they were away from home and just got missed off, or the record is so badly faded it's just not showing up in transcriptions.

As it looks as though William died later in the year I did also look for just the initials W B , as sometimes hospital patients are listed thus, but again nothing obvious.

Thanks Rambling.

You are correct, William did die later that year, and I'm trying to determine his place of birth (hence the census appeal). There are unfortunately more than one William who might be the one and who were born in the locality at about the right time. And the same applies to a marriage of William Berry to a Mary.
Anyway, it's a brick wall at present but I'll keep trying.
Thanks again

Looks like they might have had 2 earlier children who died?

Baptism: 19 Jul 1818 St Mary the Virgin, Prestwich, Lancashire, England
Sarah Berry - [Child] of William Berry & Mary
Born: 5 May 1818
Abode: Whitefield
Occupation: Labourer
Baptised by: J. T. Kirkbank
Register: Baptisms 1813 - 1821, Page 189, Entry 1509
Source: LDS Film 2356182

Burial: 15 Mar 1819 St Mary the Virgin, Prestwich, Lancashire, England
Sarah Berry - Daughter of William Berry
Age: 10 mths
Abode: Whitefield
Buried by: J.T. Kirkbank Curate
Register: Burials 1813 - 1823, Page 182, Entry 1455
Source: LDS Film 2356233



Baptism: 8 Aug 1819 St Mary the Virgin, Prestwich, Lancashire, England
Samuel Berry - [Child] of William Berry & Mary
Born: 7 Jul 1819
Abode: Whitefield
Occupation: Labourer
Baptised by: J. T. Kirkbank
Register: Baptisms 1813 - 1821, Page 230, Entry 1840
Source: LDS Film 2356182

Burial: 4 Apr 1820 St Mary the Virgin, Prestwich, Lancashire, England
Samuel Berry - Son of William Berry
Age: 9 mths
Abode: Whitefield
Buried by: J.T. Kirkbank
Register: Burials 1813 - 1823, Page 216, Entry 1721
Source: LDS Film 2356233

Might help with the date of the wedding?

Dea x

???


William Berry
England Births and Christenings
Name William Berry
Gender Male
Christening Date 06 Aug 1786
Christening Date (Original) 06 AUG 1786
Christening Place Prestwich, Lancashire, England
Father's Name John Berry
Mother's Name Alice Berry

Christenings of probable siblings of that William , with mms Alice Berry:

Sarah 1785 - "of Whitefield"
Samuel 1784 - "of Whitefield"
John 1789 - "of Prestwich"
Mary 1782 - "of Whitfield"
Ann 1790 - "of Whitefield"

Possible marriage of parents ??

John Berry
England, Manchester, Parish Registers
Name John Berry
Event Type Marriage
Event Date 27 Feb 1781
Event Place St Mary, Prestwich, Lancashire, England
Gender Male
Spouse's Name Alice Woolstenhulme
Spouse's Gender Female

"Both of Whitefield "

Witnesses: George Holland, Thomas Lees

Finding William in 1841 wouldn't help identify his place of birth.

If he was in Lancashire in 1841, it would only say if he was born in Lancashire, or not.
If he wasn't in Lancs , his place of birth would just be "not in" whatever county he was in.