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Dea I really do appreciate your help.

I have been trying for years to find out more about my O'Neill family but not had any luck before great grandfather Patrick O'Neill.c1850 Killbannon Galway Ireland

I thought if I looked into the witnesses on Patrick and Margarets marriage cert that might give me a clue
and also the godparents on my grandads baptism records

but it just seems one big headache.

Once again I really cant thank you enough for all your help

Linda x

Thanks, yes, I have all the above and more......... b ut I haven't posted it yet until I can link it all together.

Incidentally, I have also been trying to trace the Sarah on that other marriage:

Marriage: 1 Jul 1872 Sacred Heart, Hindsford, Atherton, Lancashire, England
Thomam Hopkins -
Saram Larner -
Groom's Father: Martini Hopkins
Bride's Father: Joannis Larner
Witness: Gulielmo Hunt; Elizabetha Burke
Married by: Alfredus White S.J.
Register: Marriages 1869 - 1900, Page 4

Father was John which would fit with the 1851 but I couldn't find them on 1881 census to check ages etc.

They had all these children but I still can't find them !


Baptism: 26 Apr 1873 Sacred Heart, Hindsford, Atherton, Lancashire, England
Maria Hopkins - Daughter of Thomae Hopkins & Sarae (formerly Larner)
Born: 20 Apr 1873
Godparents: Gulielmus Hunt; Birgitta Hunt
Baptised by: Jacobo Dawber Miss. Apost.
Register: Baptisms 1865 - 1882, Page 69, Entry 7
Source: Microfilm of register at Wigan History Shop

Baptism: 6 Dec 1874 Sacred Heart, Hindsford, Atherton, Lancashire, England
Jacobus Hopkins - Son of Thomae Hopkins & Sarah (formerly Lardner)
Born: 1 Dec 1874
Godparents: Michael Kenney; Helena Fearick
Baptised by: Richardo J. O'Neill Miss. Apost.
Register: Baptisms 1865 - 1882, Page 85, Entry 50
Source: Microfilm of register at Wigan History Shop

Baptism: 18 Jun 1876 Sacred Heart, Hindsford, Atherton, Lancashire, England
Anna Hopkins - Daughter of Thomae Hopkins & Sarahae (formerly Lardner)
Born: 5 Jun 1876
Godparents: Thomas Kelly; Maria Wallace
Baptised by: Richardo J. O'Neill Miss. Apost.
Register: Baptisms 1865 - 1882, Page 111, Entry 38
Source: Microfilm of register at Wigan History Shop



Still working on it - have MANY pages of notes but am going round in circles and rapidly losing the plot !!! ;-)

Dea x

Could be just a mistake by the enumerator .

The marriage of the Sarah in 1881 census:

Sarah Larner
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1837-1915
Name: Sarah Larner
Registration Year: 1874
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration district: Leigh
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 8c
Page: 250
Records on Page:
Name
Peter Roache
Sarah Larner


But there's another Sarah Larner marriage in Leigh:

Sarah Larner
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1837-1915
Name: Sarah Larner
Registration Year: 1872
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration district: Leigh
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 8c
Page: 291
Records on Page:
Name
William Hampson
Thomas Hopkins
Sarah Larner
Ann Young


EDIT:

William Hampson married Ann Young, per 1881 census.

just looking at the 1851 and 1881 census it cant be the same sarah as the ages are out by 10 years . 1861 sarah is 20 years old and 1881 sarah is 30 years old ???

Name:
Sarah Larner
Registration Year:
1874
Registration Quarter:
Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration district:
Leigh
Parishes for this Registration District:
View Ecclesiastical Parishes associated with this Registration District
Inferred County:
Lancashire
Volume:
8c
Page:
250
Records on Page:
Name
Peter Roache
John Darbyshire
Harriet Fairclough
Sarah Larner
Save Cancel

On the 1881 census Sarah is married and her surname is Roach. Her mother margaret is a widow and living with them. They are living at John Street Pennington Leigh which is not far from Trafalgar Street

ame: Sarah Roach
[Sarah Larner]
Age: 30
Estimated birth year: abt 1851
Relationship to Head: Wife
Spouse: Peter Roach
Mother: Margaret Larner
Gender: Female
Where born: Galway, Ireland
Civil Parish: Pennington in Leigh
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address: 21 John St
Marital status: Married
Education:
Occupation: Silk Weaver
Registration district: Leigh
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 3806
Folio: 102
Page Number: 47
Household Members:
Name Age
Peter Roach 30
Sarah Roach 30
Mary Roach 4
Margaret Larner 63

Dea what a wonderful idea that the name could be different .
I found the Lamars on the 1861 census as LERNER. they are living in Manchester next door to the family they were lodging with in 1851 Thomas and Catherine Toole

Name: Sarah Lerner
Age: 20
Estimated birth year: 1841
Relation: Daughter
Father's name: John Lerner
Mother's name: Margaret Lerner
Gender: Female
Where born: Ireland
Civil Parish: Manchester
Ecclesiastical parish: St George
Town: Manchester
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

John Lerner 51
Margaret Lerner 50
Sarah Lerner 20
John Lerner 15

Oh Dea you are a star. I've been searching for the lamar/lamer family on any of the following census but with no luck
Linda x

Neither can I but if there 'is' a connection I am determined to find it !!!!!!!!!!!!! ;-)

I have found that the name 'Lamar / Lamer' is very probably LARNER and I have found another Sabina but I will return when I have linked it all up.......

Dea x

cant get my head around the connection of Michael O'Neill, Sabina, Sarah Lamar .

he lived there till he died in 1915

And still there in 1911:

Patrick O Neill
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Patrick O Neill
Age in 1911: 62
Estimated birth year: abt 1849
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Galway, Ireland
Civil Parish: Leigh
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address: 120 Trafalgar St Leigh Lanc
Marital status: Widowed
Registration district: Leigh
Registration District Number: 460
Sub-registration district: Culcheth
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Piece: 23192
Household Members:
Name Age
Patrick O Neill 62
Mary O Neill 37
Catherine O Neill 31
Bridget O Neill 22

1901 - still at 120 Trafalgar Street:


Patrick Oneil
in the 1901 England Census
Name: Patrick Oneil
Age: 52
Estimated birth year: abt 1849
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Spouse: Margt Oneil
Birth Place: Ireland
Civil Parish: Leigh
Ecclesiastical parish: St Thomas
Town: Leigh
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address:
Registration district: Leigh
Sub-registration district: Culcheth
ED, institution, or vessel: 01
Neighbors:
Piece: 3589
Folio: 26
Page Number: 44
Household schedule number: 302
Household Members:
Name Age
Patrick Oneil 52
Margt Oneil 48
Mary Oneil 28
Catherine Oneil 20
Ellen Oneil 14
Bridget Oneil 12

sorry how that came out like that . not very computer savvy

Name
Patrick Oneil
Gender
Male
Age
42
Relationship
Head
Birth Year
1849
Spouse
Margaret Oneil
Child
Mary Oneil
Birth Place
Ireland
Civil parish
Bedford
Residence Place
Leigh Lancaster, Bedford, Lancashire, England
Sub registration district
Culcheth
Sub Schedule Number
4
Piece
3084
Folio
82
Household Members
Name
Age
Name
Patrick Oneil
Name
Margaret Oneil
Name
Mary Oneil
Name
John Oneil
Name
Patrick Oneil
Name
Kate Oneil
Name
Margaret Oneil
Name
Ellen Oneil
Name
Bridget Oneil

1891 census patrick and family are living at 120 Trafalgar st

Yes, I would think there is certainly a connection but not sure exactly how yet.

When do you have 'yours' in Trafalgar St ? - Can you post it for reference please ?

Dea x

Dea that's brilliant. My O'Neill family ended up living in Trafalgar st in Leigh. That has to be more than a coincidence don't you think

Please give her a (very gentle) hug from all of us and tell her to get well soon <3

Are these connected in any way?



There was mention of a Sarah Lamer (Lemar??) here:

Baptism: 8 Apr 1871 Sacred Heart, Hindsford, Atherton, Lancashire, England
Robertus Lamer - Son of Thomae Lamer & Mariae (formerly Luby)
Born: 28 Mar 1871
Godparents: Marcus Langan ****; Sarah Lamer *******************
Baptised by: Jacobo Dawber Miss. Apost.
Register: Baptisms 1865 - 1882, Page 51, Entry 10
Source: Microfilm of register at Wigan History Shop

Note that there is a Marcus LANGAN also mentioned !



Shirley had posted this record on page 1:

Ireland, Select Births and Baptisms, 1620-1911 No Image
Text-only collection
Name: John O'Neill
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 10 Jul 1867
Birth Place: Ireland
Father: Michael O'Neill
Mother: Sabina Langan **** (another mention of the name LANGAN ??)
FHL Film Number: 101153



This could be the Sarah mentioned - note that she was born in Tuam, Galway !!!
1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Trafalgar Street, Bedford, Leigh, Lancashire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Thomas Tooler Head Married Male 28 1823 Cotton Carder Ireland
Catharine Tooler Wife Married Female 20 1831 Handloom Weaver Silk Ireland
John Lamer Lodger Married Male 40 1811 Farm Servant Ireland
Margaret Lamer Lodger Married Female 42 1809 Housekeeper Ireland
Mary Lamer Lodger Unmarried Female 18 1833 Siolk Winder Ireland
Sarah Lamer Lodger - Female 8 1843 Scholar Ireland b. *****Tuam, Galway, Ireland *********
John Lamer Lodger - Male 6 1845 Scholar Ireland
Peter Bracoon Lodger Unmarried Male 24 1827 Farm Servant Ireland
Cack Farrel Lodger Unmarried Male 18 1833 Cotton Carder Ireland
John Foord Lodger Unmarried Male 16 1835 Cotton Carder Ireland
John Duninishire Lodger Unmarried Male 20 1831 Cotton Carder Ireland
John Mooney Lodger Unmarried Male 20 1831 Cotton Carder Ireland

Dea x

Our granddaughter suffered a broken nose and badly bruised but was so lucky. The lorry in front of her braked but the lorry behind her didn't and pushed her car under the lorry. She was so very lucky. Thank you every one