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What Irish census are available. If Michael married in 1862 I wonder if there is a census before then with Michael and Patrick on ? Or am I just clutching at straws
Thanks again every one for your help
Linda x

There are very partial censuses for 1841 and 1851 - much was destroyed.

Available here:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/

I don't see Michael or Patrick on either census.
And no Larners or Lamers.

Just typical. I'm on my way home from work so will check it out later
Thank you
Linda x

Well, I do now have the 1857 Sabina we were looking for but for the life of me I cannot remember why !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;-) :-S



???
Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1855
Surname Forename(s) Mother's Maiden Name Sub-District Registers At Reference
O'NEILL Mary WALTERS Westleigh Wigan & Leigh WL/6/293

1857:
*****NEIL Sabina WATERS Westleigh Wigan & Leigh WL/7/423 - Sophia on 1871 ?????



???1859:
O'NEIL Mary Ann WALTER Westleigh Wigan & Leigh WL/9/129


????? 1862:
O'NEIL Thomas WATERS Westleigh Wigan & Leigh WL/11/93



1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Bradshawgate, Pennington, Leigh, Lancashire, England

James O'Neill Head - Male 59 1812 - Ireland - Tuam, Galway
Margaret O'Neill Wife - Female 47 1824 - Ireland
Margaret McGrath Daughter - Female 26 1845 - Ireland
Catherine O'Neill Daughter - Female 24 1847 - Ireland
Sarah O'Neill Daughter - Female 17 1854 - Lancashire, England - Leigh
Sophia O'Neill Daughter - Female 13 1858 - Lancashire, England................... Sabina ???
Mary Ann O'Neill Daughter - Female 11 1860 - Lancashire, England
Thomas O'Neill Son - Male 9 1862 - Lancashire, England
Anne McGrath Granddaughter - Female 5 1866 - Lancashire, England



1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census.................... Image says O'NEIL for surnames !!!!!!!!!!!
King Street, Pennington, Leigh, Lancashire, England

James Olive Head Married Male 48 1813 Range (ORANGE dealer) Dealer Ireland
Margaret Olive Wife Married Female 28 1833 - Ireland
Bridget Olive Daughter Unmarried Female 18 1843 Tenter In Cotton Mill Ireland
Catherine Olive Daughter - Female 16 1845 Tenter In Cotton Mill Ireland
Catherine Olive Daughter - Female 14 1847 Tenter In Cotton Mill Ireland
Michael Olive Son - Male 11 1850 Scholar Ireland
Sarah Olive Daughter - Female 8 1853 Scholar Pennington, Lancashire, England
Jane Olive Daughter - Female 3 1858 - Pennington, Lancashire, England ***** (looks like Savine on image??)
Mary Ann Olive Daughter - Female 1 1860 - Pennington, Lancas


NEILL, SABINA mms WATERS ................................... Jane on the above ?????
GRO Reference: 1857 S Quarter in LEIGH Volume 08C Page 161


BAPTISM:

Name: James O'Neil
Gender: Male
Diocese: Tuam
Spouse: Margret Walters
Child: Margret O'Neil
Nov. ? 1844
Godparents - Patick Hogan + Annie Dalton??




This confuses me though as it is the same address as 1871 so MUST be related !!! ??

1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census
????????????? re address????
7, Bradshawgate, Pennington, Leigh, Lancashire, England
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
James O Neill Head Married Male 38 1823 Tailor & Draper Ireland
Ann O Neill Wife Married Female 39 1822 - Ireland
James O Neill Son - Male 11 1850 Scholar Leigh, Lancashire, England
Mary O Neill Daughter - Female 8 1853 Scholar Leigh, Lancashire, England
Ann O Neill Daughter - Female 6 1855 Scholar Leigh, Lancashire, England
Thomas O Neill Son - Male 4 1857 Scholar Leigh, Lancashire, England
Catherine O Neill Daughter - Female 1 1860 - Leigh, Lancashire, England
Mary Brown Cousin Unmarried Female 18 1843 ...Factory Hand Ireland




1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census
23, Vernon Street, Leigh, Lancashire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Bridget McHugh Head Widow Female 58 1843 Frame Tenter (Cotton Mill) Ireland
Sophia O'Niell Sister Single Female 43 1858 Charwoman Leigh, Lancashire, England
Thomas O'Niell Brother Married Male 39 1862 Yarn Packer (Cotton Mill) Leigh, Lancashire, England
Mary O'Niell Sister-In-Law Married Female 34 1867 - Widnes, Lancashire, England
James O'Niell Nephew - Male 12 1889 Errand Boy (Cotton Mill) Leigh, Lancashire, England
Margaret O'Niell Niece - Female 8 1893 - Leigh, Lancashire, England
Francis J O'Niell Nephew - Male 3 1898 - Leigh, Lancashire, England
Sophia O'Niell Niece - Female 0 1901 - Leigh, Lancashire, England


Marriages Jun 1903 (>99%)
Morris John Leigh 8c 451 Scan available - click to view ***
O'Neill Sophia Leigh 8c 451 Scan available - click to view ***



1911 Census For England & Wales
23 Vernon Street Leigh, Leigh, Lancashire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
John Morris Head Married Male 41 1870 Colliery Labourer Underground County Galway Ireland Resident
Sophia Morris Wife Married Female 52 1859 - Leigh Lancs


Dea x

OMG !
Dea that's absolutely fabulous. You are amazing.
I will have to get my head around all this information.
You have worked so hard and I truly do appreciate it
Thank you
Linda x

Does knowing who Sabina belongs to get us anywhere though ??? - I have totally lost track....

I seem to have just about all of this family in my notes but they are all mixed up.

Dea x

Will have to print this out and get my head around it. I am seeing my sister at the weekend so hopefully she can help. The surname Waters rings a bell somewhere. But I don't know yet
Can't thank you enough.
I'm sure it will all come right - eventually
Linda x

So am I right in thinking Michael and Sabina could have been brother and sister

Linda x

Well, there is a Michael in that family who is brother to 'that' Sabina but we also have the couple (Michael O'Neill and Sabina Langan) who married in Ballina, and I also have a mother and son somewhere along the line.

The trouble is there are too many of them all with the same names and the majority of them seem to be connected in some way. - Too much intermarrying I think !!!!!!!!!

We just need to keep working on it until we find the magic link to make it all fall into place.............

I too have printed it all out - I now have 23 pages!. ;-) :-S

See you later...................

Dea x

Dea you are amazing. I'm in work but will catch up later
Linda x

i spent last night looking at these and i am going round in circles.
i have a 3rd cousin who is on holiday at the moment . he has done some research on the O'Neills.
I dont think he has got these in his tree but it might jog something if i show him

Linda x

You think 'you' are going round in circle ????????? - I have been 'circling' for days ;-) :-D

I have now started again at the beginning with the census from 1881 onwards and have decided that the 1871 (originally posted by Flip on page 1) is very probably 'our' Patrick. However, I cannot take that line any further at the moment.

This was the one:


1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census - posted also by Flip on page 1 !!!
Fulwood Barracks, Near Preston, Fulwood, Preston, Lancashire, England
.
First name(s) Patrick
Last name O'Neill
Relationship -
Marital status -
Sex Male
Age 22
Birth year 1849
Occupation -
Birth town -
Birth place Ireland
Birth county -
Birth county as transcribed IRELAND - TUAM on image !!!
House name -
Street Fulwood Barracks, Near Preston
Parish Fulwood
Town -
County Lancashire
Country England
Registration district Preston

The regiment could well be H.M. 12th Regiment ???

I am also following the 'other' JamesO'Neill I found on 1861 who was in Bradshawgate where 'our' James was in 1871 ??

Anyway, I won't confuse further but will post as and when I link something up which is relevant.

If another member of your family has already done some research it would be VERY useful to see what he has - It might just make some sense of what we have found?

Speak later,..............

Dea x

Dea you are wonderful.
Patrick my 3rd cousin is away but I have messaged him.
He has done some research but mostly on his mother's side which has no connection to mine.
Paddys grandfather and mine were brothers..
Linda x

Dea, if you are favoring the Patrick at Fullwood barracks in 1871, the CO was Henry Meade Hamilton:

Lt.-Gen. Henry Meade Hamilton1,2
M, #38264, b. circa 1821, d. 14 July 1895
He gained the rank of Lieutenant-COlonel in the 2/12 Regiment

I can't find a military record for Patrick on ancestry, but maybe there is something on FMP?

Thanks Flip - I had looked into that a couple of days ago but I have now been able to discounted that Regiment.

It seems that there were other Regiments also posted there 'en route' at that time. - one of them being the 5th Dragoons (which has links to Ireland) who marched off to York around middle of May after staying for several months, and I think it was just after they left that the 13th Hussars arrived.

No military record on FMP unfortunately!!

I have been looking for newspaper articles thinking that he 'may' have deserted but no luck there either.

It's a 'real puzzler' isn't it??

Dea x

Something my dad said about his grandad which was Patrick O'neill was that he was a rag and bone man and had a very bad limp . I often wondered if he got it in an accident down the mines . On his 1st daughters birth certificate it says he was living at Boston Cottages Haydock Lancashire. These cottages belonged to the colliery.

Thank you ladies for all the help you are giving me

It really is appreciated

Linda x

Which of the birth certs was this and what date please?

Dea x

EDIT - I presume it must have been Mary in 1873??

Dea x

Dea yes it was. Date was 24th March 1873 and they were living at 11 Boston Cottages Haydock occupation is Miner

On his son John's births cert 19th June 1875 they are living at 18 Union st leigh Lancashire occupation is Miner

On the 1881 census his occupation is Rag merchant and they are living at 18 Chapman's st leigh Lancashire.

So something must have happened to his leg between 1875 and 1881.Linda x

I've lost it just now but I know there was a big explosion in the Wood Pit Colliery at Haydock in 1878 which killed about 180 + men and boys. There was a list somewhere of the dead, none of which appear to be related but there must have been many injured also.

I cannot find any names of the injured but he might have been one of them?

Dea x

Dea that's a possibility. . I know when he became a rag merchant he used to go round collecting rags from people and then sell it to the mills to mop up oil from the machines as they wouldn't use the good cloth they made . My dad told me that's what his dad told him

Linda x