Find Ancestors

Thanks for your post mgnv. I'll check out the references. I need to speak to my cousin about all of the posts, so will come back on the boards in a while.

As a child in 1950 Wembley, one of our neighbours was a US civilian employee working at a big USAF base nearby in Ruislip. He was rhere with his wife and kids (who I think were born in the UK). I don't know his route there - if he and his wife went first to France or Italy say, that wouldn't show up in UK inbound passenger lists.He could have demobbed in Europe, and have his wife come over to join him, - I just don't know.

You can use these links to search the main US census

1850 https://www.familysearch.org/search/collection/1401638
1860 https://www.familysearch.org/search/collection/1473181
1870 https://www.familysearch.org/search/collection/1438024
1880 https://www.familysearch.org/search/collection/1417683
1890
1900 https://www.familysearch.org/search/collection/1325221
1910 https://www.familysearch.org/search/collection/1727033
1920 https://www.familysearch.org/search/collection/1488411
1930 https://www.familysearch.org/search/collection/1810731
1940 https://www.familysearch.org/search/collection/2000219

There is a 72 year closure. The census does go back yo 1790, but pre-1850, only the head of h/h was named, and the rest of the h/h just shows up as counts in age-sex categories.
Also, 1890 was 99.99% destriyed by fire.
Some states did their own censuses, often 5 y after the federal census.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KQRS-7WG
Event Type Census
Event Date 1940
Event Place Assembly District 3, Brooklyn, New York City, Kings, New York, United States
[Address 428 columbia Street - gotten from cols 1 & 2 of image]
Albert Knoebel Head M 57 New York
Julia Knoebel Wife F 37 New York
Helen Knoebel Daughter F 11 New York
James Knoebel Son M 9 New York
Thomas Knoebel Son M 7 New York
Martin Knoebel Son M 2 New York


https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KQKG-1RB
Event Type Census
Event Date 1940
Event Place Ward 4, Helena, St. Francis Township, Phillips, Arkansas, United States
[1058 Wilson Street]
William D Knoble Head M 51 Arkansas [Insurance & Real Estate]
Norine Knoble Wife F 37 Mississippi
Billy Knoble Son M 13 Arkansas
Helen Knoble Daughter F 10 Arkansas
Helen Meek Sister-in-law F 27 Mississippi



This is Andy's 1940 - the surname is transcribed as Russel, but the image is blurry, and I think Knobel is correct

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:K4RN-3FP
Event Type Census
Event Date 1940
Event Place Ward 5, Hoboken, Hoboken City, Hudson, New Jersey, United States
[260? Park Ave]
Charles Russel Head M 32 New Jersey
Catharine Russel Wife F 30 New Jersey
Helen Russel Daughter F 12 New Jersey
Margaret Russel Daughter F 8 New Jersey

The URLs given above do all have links to the page images.

Thank you Rambling, I've replied to you. Very much appreciated

Ronald I will send you a message with some info on potential sister as posted, so you can follow it up if wished.

The message will show in 'Messages' top of page, click on the envelope to open.

Just for ref the Throat hospital in 1939 is listed as "Nobody lived in this house in 1939"

Household (2 People * in error I think) )
Throat Hospital Golden Square , City of Westminster, London, England

info re hospital

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/hospitalrecords/details.asp?id=272

https://ezitis.myzen.co.uk/rntnehgolden.html

Wow! I'm sorry I didn't reply yesterday but I have been really busy decorating following a rather long loft conversion we've been enduring.
I cannot believe how generous you fellow researchers are to take the time to help me with this post. Having looked at the various posts I can say that it looks a bit of a minefield. I have no evidence that Helen was American but saw the reference on Ancestry in my initial post and thought it worth asking for help just to see what it contained. I don't believe that this is the right Helen.
Regrettably, Rachael is no longer with us I'm afraid but her daughter has been trying for some time to discover more about her birth and family members. I am trying to help her. Rachael told her daughter that she believed her mother Helen was very young when she gave birth to her, possibly only 17. Hence my guess at her birth as 1929. She also thought that her mother may have been either Polish or German. The only other information we have, from Rachael's birth certificate, is that Helen worked as a domestic servant at the Ear, Nose and Throat Hospital in Golden Square, London, W.C.
I have not yet investigated whether any staff records exist of this establishment.
I need to study the posts submitted by you kind folks in a little more detail, but if anything else comes to light, please let me know.
Thank you all once again.

Marriages Jun 1916 (>99%)
Silver Jessie R Orbell Wantage 2c 683
Orbell William Silver Wantage 2c 483

Orbell Household (3 People)
22 Moreton Road , Wallingford R.D., Berkshire, England


William Orbell Male 16 Jan 1885 Racing Stable Lad Married 115 1
Jessie R Orbell Female 22 Sep 1886 Unpaid Domestic Duti Married 115 2
Sorry, this record is officially closed. Check if you can open a closed record.

Births Jun 1920 (>99%)
Orbell Archie W Silver Faringdon 2c 626

Deaths Jun 1983 (>99%)
ORBELL ARCHIE WILLIAM 24MR1920 N COTSWOLD 22 2037

3 children to that marriage likely to be living born Wallingford. see freebmd

son still on eroll for Moreton in Marsh Glouc' ( and is easy to find on facebook)

1st daughter m to Cox on eroll to 2018 Cheltenham

Helene's sister?

Marriages Jun 1942 (>99%)
Knobel Aenni Orbell Wallingford 2c 1141
Orbell Archie W Knobel Wallingford 2c 1141

also this one care of Dr Langmore
married to Archibald William Orbell

Anne
Last name Knobel Or Orbell
Birth year 1921
Birth place Buchel, Siegkreis
Residence town Aston Tirrold
Residence county Berks
Nationality British previously German
Soldier Number -
Series Home Office: Aliens Department: Internees Index, 1939-1947
Document details Dead Index - Wives of Germans, Nicht-Plunn
Year range 1941-1947
Conflict Second World War
Archive
The National Archives
Archive reference HO 396/236
Record set Britain, Enemy Aliens And Internees, First And Second World Wars
Category Military, armed forces & conflict

ARCHIE W
Last name ORBELL
Marriage quarter 2
Marriage year 1942
Registration month -

MarriageFinder ™


ARCHIE W ORBELL married one of these people

Aenni Knobel
Spouse's last name Knobel
District Wallingford
District number -
County Berkshire
Country England
Volume 2C
Volume as transcribed 2C

Annie
Last name Orbell
Title Mrs
Sex Female
Age 94
Birth year 1921
Birth date 03 Jun 1921
Death year 2016
Death date 01 Dec 2016
Place Moreton-In-Marsh
Area Gloucester
Geo direction South West
Postcode area GL
Postcode district GL56
Postcode sector GL56 0
County Gloucestershire

Archie W Orbell

Record: Civil Births Record

Location: Berkshire, England

Year of birth: 1920
First name(s) ARCHIE WILLIAM
Last name ORBELL
Gender Male
Birth day 24
Birth month 3
Birth year 1920
Age -
Death quarter 2
Death year 1983
District North Cotswold
County Gloucestershire

snap Erika !
:-)

Maddie's reference there to a Dr Langmore might possibly be this one ?

Langmore Household (6 People)
Red House Hagbourne Road , Wallingford R.D., Berkshire, England

Herbert ? Langmore Male 23 Oct 1869 Medical Practitioner Married 31 1
Sophia Langmore Female 05 Jan 1882 Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 31 2
Alice Jenrins Female 30 May 1851 Incapacitated Widowed 31 3
Clara Atkinson Female ? Jul 1884 Trained Nurse Single 31 4
Sorry, this record is officially closed. Check if you can open a closed record.
Sorry, this record is officially closed. Check if you can open a closed record.

That looks much more likely

1939 for the Doctor??

Langmore Household (6 People)
Red House Hagbourne Road , Wallingford R.D., Berkshire, England


Herbert ? Langmore Male 23 Oct 1869 Medical Practitioner Married 31 1
Sophia Langmore Female 05 Jan 1882 Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 31 2
Alice Jenrins Female 30 May 1851 Incapacitated Widowed 31 3
Clara Atkinson Female ? Jul 1884 Trained Nurse Single 31 4
Sorry, this record is officially closed. Check if you can open a closed record.
Sorry, this record is officially closed. Check if you can open a closed record.

1911

Name: Herbert Richard Langmore
Age in 1911: 42
Estimated birth year: abt 1869
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Hampstead, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: Aston Tirrold Aston Upthorpe
County/Island: Berkshire
Country: England
Street address: The Red House, Aston Up Thorpe, Tirrold, Wallingford, Berks
Marital status: Married
Occupation: Medical Practioner
Registration district: Wallingford
Registration District Number: 119
Sub-registration district: Cholsey
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Household schedule number: 77
Piece: 6508
Household Members:
Name Age
Herbert Richard Langmore 42
Sophia Langmore 29
David Erskine Langmore 9/12
Katherine Mary Rowe 25
Elsie Bennett 20

just a thought

Record Transcription:
Britain, Enemy Aliens And Internees, First And Second World Wars

First name(s) Helene
Last name Knobel
Birth year 1920 25/04
Birth place Herfterath
Residence town Aston Tirrold
Residence county Berks
Nationality German previously stateless
Soldier Number -
Series Home Office: Aliens Department: Internees Index, 1939-1947
Document details Internees at Liberty in the UK, Kli-Kohn
Year range 1939-1942
Conflict Second World War
Archive
The National Archives
Archive reference HO 396/47
Record set Britain, Enemy Aliens And Internees, First And Second World Wars
Category Military, armed forces & conflict
Subcategory Government
Collections from Great Britain, UK None

a domestic c/o Dr Langmore

in the Germany, the Fate of Jews from Many Communities in Westphalia, 1933-1942
Germany, the Fate of Jews from Many Communities in Westphalia, 1933-1942 No e

Name: Helene Knobel
Birth Date: 25 Apr 1920
Last Residence: Herne
Date Emigrated: 23 Aug 1939
Place Emigrated: England

Unless you have reason to believe she was American, I tend to agree with Rambling's suggestion that she came from Europe during the war.

And as there's no sign of her either marrying or dying in the UK, I suggest she went back there after Rachael's birth, or else changed her name - Noble would be the first thought.

How do you know she was born c1929? It would be unusual for a child's birth cert to show the mother's age.

Another offering from familysearch

Name Helen V Knobel
Event Type Census
Event Date 1930
Event Place Belleville, Essex, New Jersey, United States
Gender Female
Age 9
Marital Status Single
Race White
Race White
Relationship to Head of Household Daughter
Relationship to Head of Household Daughter
Birth Year (Estimated) 1921
Birthplace West Virginia
Father's Birthplace Germany
Mother's Birthplace New York
Sheet Letter A
Sheet Number 10
George Knobel Head M 38 Germany
Ella Knobel Wife F 38 New York
Helen V Knobel Daughter F 9 West Virginia
Dorothy Knobel Daughter F 8 New Jersey

What makes you think she was American? Is there any documentation to support the theory?

??

Helen Knobel
California, Southern District Court (Central) Naturalization Index
Name Helen Knobel
Event Date 1971
Event Place Los Angeles, Los Angeles, California, United States
Birth Year 1925

Helen Knobel
Event Type Immigration
Event Date 1955
Event Place New York City, New York, United States
Gender Female
Ship Name Hb-Ibo
Citing this Record

"New York, New York Passenger and Crew Lists, 1909, 1925-1957,"