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Newspapers,
July 3rd 1916,

Westminster Gazette,,a MrsTynan O'Mahoney gives a talk........on the Irish Rebellion in Dublin......credits needed to view.

Photo of note and lace received, thanks.

It's a pity the note doesn't specify where in Ireland this happened!
Veronica only calls her "Muriel, Mum's cousin" - no surname.

In your post on 3 April 2019, at 23:02, you say "the only other name mentioned as a possible aunt is Murial Stewart".

So we don't know if she was an aunt or a cousin. As a child, Veronica may have misunderstood the relationship.

Nor do we know the correct spelling of her name.
I take it that Barbara's mention of her was verbal, and that there's nothing written?

Muriel Stuart was supposedly Barbara's cousin and because she mentioned her along with Katherine Tynan it was assumed it was Muriel Irwin Stuart the poet but this seems unlikely because Veronica (Barbara's daughter) went to visit Muriel in northern Ireland possibly Belfast in 1962. During the latest discoveries a lace doily was found with a note saying present from cousin Muriel 1962 and Veronica remembers it. I will send you a pic.

You said, "Barbara mentioned a cousin Muriel Stuart ".

Is there any indication of when that was?
Muriel's age, roughly?
English or Irish?
Was Stuart her maiden name or married name?

What did Barbara say about her?

Just a vain hope! I don't suppose you have any info on any of that!

I'm assuming that Barbara referred to her as "Muriel Stuart", and that you have considered Muriel Irwin Stuart simply because of the name Irwin.

Thank you all

SALE OF WORK. Will (D.V.) [be] held in THE BOYS HOME., GRAND CANAL STREET, WEDNESDAY and THURSDAY, MAY and 31st.
Gifts of Work for the Stalls are earnestly requested, and may sent for any of the Stallholders MISS A D. SMYLY, [?] Grattan street, or MRS. IRWIN, Boys Home, Grand Canal Street
Published: Saturday 26 May 1906
Newspaper: Dublin Daily Express

Other similar articles in other years mention that it was an annual event to raise funds, as the Home was dependent on charitable donations.

Mary's husband's death:

SR District/Reg Area - Dublin South

Death of JOHN IRWIN in 1898
Name JOHN IRWIN
Date of Death 1898 [ 31 Oct 1898, at Grand Canal St School ]
Group Registration ID 4302184
SR District/Reg Area Dublin South
Deceased Age at Death 52

Married, schoolmaster.
Cause of death: Hepatic disease, convulsions.
Informant: Elizabeth Johnston, 80 Leinster Road.


Mary and John don't seem to have had any children.


However, as Mary's not related to Barbara, this doesn't answer any of the questions about Barbara!

However, it's not scored out on this one:

Mary Irwin
in the New York, U.S., Arriving Passenger and Crew Lists (including Castle Garden and Ellis Island), 1820-1957
Name Mary Irwin
Gender Female
Ethnicity/ Nationality Irish
Age 54
Birth Date abt 1850
Departure Port Liverpool, England
Arrival Date 28 May 1904
Arrival Port New York, New York, USA
Residence Place Ireland
Ship Name Lucania

Occupation: housekeeper.
Widow, Irish.
Going to her sister Mrs John Viney , The Cedars, Charlottesville.

Mary Irwin
in the New York, U.S., Arriving Passenger and Crew Lists (including Castle Garden and Ellis Island), 1820-1957
Name Mary Irwin
Gender Female
Ethnicity/ Nationality Irish
Marital Status Widowed
Age 71
Birth Date abt 1850
Birth Place Ireland
Other Birth Place Corofin [Co Clare ] <<<<<
Last Known Residence Dublin, Ireland
Departure Port Liverpool, England
Arrival Date 19 Sep 1921
Arrival Port New York, New York, USA
Residence Place Ireland
Final Destination St. Petersburg, Florida
Years in US 1 Year
Citizenship Intention No
Height 5 Feet, 5 Inches
Hair Color Gray
Eye Color Blue
Complexion Fair
Money in Possession $400
Person in Old Country Mrs Read [ sister; 46 Michicon Rd, Dublin ]
Person in Old Country Residence Ireland
Person in US Mrs Viney [Sarah, sister, St Petersburg, Florida ]
Ship Name Baltic

Above record says she was previously in the USA, in NY, in 1904.

Mary Irwin
in the New York, U.S., Arriving Passenger and Crew Lists (including Castle Garden and Ellis Island), 1820-1957
Name Mary Irwin
Gender Female
Ethnicity/ Nationality English
Age 54
Birth Date abt 1850
Departure Port Liverpool, England
Arrival Date 28 May 1904
Arrival Port New York, New York, USA
Residence Place Great Britain
Ship Name Lucania

Superintendent of Institution.
Travelling to sister and brother-in-law Mr & Mrs Viney, The Cedars, Charlottesville, Virginia.
BUT her name's scored out on that record.

Mary Irwin
in the Web: Ireland, Census, 1901
Name Mary Irwin
Gender Female
Marital Status Widow
Age 51
Birth Date abt 1850
Birth Place Co Clare
Residence Date 31 Mar 1901
House Number 1.3
Residence Place Grand Canal Street, South Dock, Dublin, Ireland [Boarding school]
Relation to Head Head of Family (Head)
Occupation Matron
Religion Church of Ireland
Literacy Read and write
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
Mary Irwin 51 Head of Family (Head), matron, widow, Co Clare.
Jane Jackson 44 Boarder, teacher, single, England
Mary Anne Murphy 47 Boarder, domestic servant, widow, Louth


Ragged Boys School, Grand Canal Street:
http://www.childrenshomes.org.uk/DublinRaggedBoys/

The Coombe, Dublin :
http://www.childrenshomes.org.uk/DublinCoombe/

[ John Irwin's address at marriage was The Coombe - though not necessarily the children's home ]

Other homes under same management:
http://www.childrenshomes.org.uk/DublinSmyly/

Mary Begley's marriage:

SR District/Reg Area - Stranorlar
Marriage of JOHN IRWIN and MARY BEGLY
on 03 September 1879
Party 1 Name JOHN IRWIN
Party 2 Name MARY BEGLY
Date of Event 03 September 1879
Group Registration ID 2657430
SR District/Reg Area Stranorlar


3 Sept 1879, at Parish Church, Stranorlar, Donegal.
Mary Begly, full age, spinster, "reader's daughter or schoolmistress".
Address: Augha Shiel, Stranorlar.
Father: John Begly, scripture reader.

John Irwin, full age, bachelor, schoolmaster.
Address: The Coombe, Dublin.
Father: John Irwin, merchant.

Witnesses: Margaret Begley and Joseph Colhoun.




Mary Irwin
in the Web: Ireland, Census, 1911
Name Mary Irwin
Gender Female
Age 61
Birth Year abt 1850
Birth Place Co Clare
Residence Date 2 Apr 1911
House Number 2.2
Townland/Street Grand Canal Street, South Side
District South Dock
County Dublin
Country Ireland
Electoral District South Dock
Literacy Read and write
Marital Status Widow
Occupation Matron of Institution <<<<<<<<<<<< [ Boys' home ]
Religion Church of Ireland
Relationship Head
URL
Household Members (Name) Age
Mary Irwin 61 - Head
Jane Jackson 54 - Assistant matron
Joseph Roberts 25 - Master
Sarah Latimer 37 - Servant, cook


The House and Buildings Return form for 1911 says there were 75 people in the Boys' Home. 72 males and 3 females, presumably the three listed above.

I think this is "Mrs Irwin", going by the various clues in earlier posts:

Mary Irwin
in the U.S., Find a Grave® Index, 1600s-Current
Name Mary Irwin
Maiden Name Begley
Gender Female
Birth Date 1850
Birth Place Ireland
Death Date 28 Mar 1930
Death Place Saint Petersburg, Pinellas County, Florida, United States of America
Cemetery Royal Palm South Cemetery
Burial or Cremation Place Saint Petersburg, Pinellas County, Florida, United States of America


The findagrave entry has a newspaper obituary attached.

It says Mrs Mary Irwin, 80, died suddenly at her home. . . . .
"She had been a resident here for eight years, coming from Dublin, Ireland, to make her home with her nephew, Judge John L Viney."

Besides her nephew she was survived by 3 sisters, Miss Rebecca Begeley of Philadelphia, Mrs Margaret Aischlman of Paris, France, and Mrs Elizabeth Reid, of Wolverhampton, England. Also a brother, George Begley, of Liverpool, England.

"For more than 50 years she devoted her life to social welfare and educational work, and her former pupils hold positions of dignity and importance, not only in Great Britain, but also in America, Asia, Africa, and the dominions beyond the seas."

"Mrs Irwin" presumably died in the USA. (Your post on 25 Feb at 18:15 says she went to USA.)

She must have emigrated between 1908 and 1930.

We can't assume she was Irish.
It's a pity we don't know her first name.

A Google search for Muriel Irwin Stuart only brings up Muriel Stuart Irwin, a poet.

Can this be the person you mean? If so, she doesn't seem to be the daughter of Mrs Irwin.

Born 1885, died 1967.
Daughter of a barrister of Scottish descent, but lived all her life in London and Berkshire. Born in Norbury.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muriel_Stuart
https://persephonebooks.co.uk/pages/muriel-stuart
https://www.scottishpoetrylibrary.org.uk/poet/muriel-stuart/

But having said that, this article calls her Muriel Irwin Stuart:
https://pennyspoetry.fandom.com/wiki/Muriel_Stuart



Muriel Stuart Irwin
in the 1911 England Census
Name Muriel Stuart Irwin
Age in 1911 26
Estimated Birth Year abt 1885
Relation to Head Daughter
Gender Female
Birth Place Norbury, Surrey, England
Civil parish Ealing
County/Island Middlesex
Country England
Street Address 6 Long Field Road, Ealing
Marital Status Single
Registration District Number 128
Sub-registration district Brentford
ED, institution, or vessel 12
Piece 6879
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
Thomas Lennon Irwin 64 Head - political agent - London
Elizabeth Brewer Irwin 60 Wife - London
Muriel Stuart Irwin 26 Daughter
Alison Lannon Irwin 23 Daughter
Valeric Jascoigna Irwin 16 Daughter
Julia New 67 Wife's Cousin (Cousin)
Carrie Platt 49 Servant
Gertrude Platt 20 Servant


Thomas Lennord Irwin
in the England, Select Marriages, 1538-1973
Name Thomas Lennord Irwin
Gender Male
Marriage Date 3 Oct 1882
Marriage Place Beckford,Gloucester,England
Spouse
Elizabeth Brewer Freeman
FHL Film Number 994248

Thomas Lennox Irwin died 1918. Administration to his widow, Elizabeth Brewer Irwin.

Elizabeth died in 1941 - so definitely not the Mrs Irwin who died in 1930.

Argyllgran has seen this new info and rightly cannot make any sense of these fragments of a letter recently found. I believe is a reply from Mr O'mahony to T Bird of Orsett College (letter I posted 23rd February in this thread ) dated1932. It ends yours sincerely C O???? it seems to be answering the questions asked of Mr O'Mahony. " All idea if calling her after her mother O'mahony, or her father Mawlowe was early on abandoned. Mrs Irwin another good friend of my sister, I regret however that she died in March 1930 at a great age. Mrs Sinclair is also dead. The only person likely to be of help is Rosabelle Sinclair, last time I spoke to her she was abroad, her previous address is Hollyhill, Co Tyrone." The rest is just pieces and ends" did has Lowe should have....fact in his Will. Yours sincerely C O???
Could C O ??? be Charles Kingston O'Mahony talking about his sister Eveleen M O'mahony? Barbara mentioned a cousin Muriel Stuart Muriel Irwin Stuart was a poet, could she be the daughter of Mrs Irwin? John Evelyn o'Mahony ( was married to Alice Sinclair) daughter of Richard Sinclair from Dublin a photographer as Barbara and other family were. Really long last shot but any help appreciated.

Thank you ArgyllGran for looking at the police cert, I thought it was to permit for a Irish resident to stay in England, not for a return to Ireland but as you say it could have been Frances going to collect Barbara, I think that may remain unanswered.
I'm sure Carrs School must have seemed like a Nunnery at 8 years old,all she had known was the Forbes family.
So far this latest info (with help on here), has confirmed everything Barbara said to her family was correct and I'm sure the rest regarding who she thought were relations Charles Kingston, Catherrine Tynan and Muriel Stuart must have some truth,
It's a challenge and possibly will never find out the full story of her awful childhood but I'm sorry I doubted her. Thanks for all your help so far. :

Carr's School wasn't a nunnery.
Maybe it just felt like that to Barbara!

It was a home for destitute children - but does seem to have had a strong religious
basis, as many children's homes had at that time:

https://carrschildandfamilyservices.ie/new-about/

The Police Certificate which Nicola sent me is a certificate of identity, which was required before civilians could travel between Britain and Ireland, in WW1.

Mostly identical to this example:
https://www.aniodhlann.org.uk/object/2013-126-3/

It's impossible to tell why she was going to Ireland.
It may or may not have had something to do with Barbara.

There is no mention of Barbara on the certificate.

So need to research info from the letter to Mr O'Mahony in 1932:

Mrs Irwin, who ran a "Home" in Dublin. Irwin gave Barbara her date of birth ( which by coincidense is the same as her son Phillip born 10th Feb 1940 Barbara giving this same date has caused confusion, the family believed Barbara had used Phillip's birth date as her own because she didn't know hers.Mrs Irwin then went to USA.The letter writer was asking Mr O'mahony if he "subsribed to Mrs Irwin's Home" and how she could be contacted.

Find Mrs/Miss/ Sinclair (the Sinclair's later in the letter) who took Barbara aged 2 to the Forbes and then to Carr;s School aged approx 8. Sinclair told the Forbes her name was Barbara Hall.
Find the birth and connection of Charles Kingston O'Mahony to Barbara and Frances( the family strongly believe he was Barbar's uncle) his father was Thomas O'Mahony Land Agent and he was born in Mitchelstown but no birth registered, there is a Charles H son of Frances and Thomas O'Mahony in 1891 census but born 1882 ( the same as their 1st son Charles J was born and died)

The family are convinced Barbara's mother was a Mary O'Mahony and was only 16/17 when Barbara was born and her father was a British Army Captain by the name of Hall. so back to that 1891 census in Everton and Thomas and Frances daughter Evelyn Mary born 1884 though??
Sure you all know when you receive new info, you think at last going to solve this and all you get is more questions :-(

The following is all info from the letter dated 1932. Barbara was taken to live with the Forbes when she was 2 (1910) by "Mrs Sinclair", who were told by Sinclair her name was Barabra Hall. She was removed from the care of the Forbes when she was 8 (1916) by " the Sinclair's" and taken to Carr's School, Northbrook St Dublin ( i think this was possibly the Nunnery she spoke of) Barbara then went to live the Lowe's (grandma) Barbara was living with them in 1921 the timeline suggested that she went to the Lowe's about 1918/1920. I have found a deathr ecord for Frances Lowe in Warwick June 1924, aged matches.Forward to 1932 when Frances Spouse Thomas Lowe's death. When Barbara( now Vera Lowe) needed to prove she was Barbara Hall to claim the insurance to pay for Thomas Lowe's funeral. There is adeath record for Frances Lowe in Warwick in 1924 Barbara always said that she lived with her Granma and husband until they were both deceased, which fits with the letter. I still believe that the 1891 census in Everton was the same Frances Lowe/ O'Mahony/nee Gibson as grandma..
A Warwick Constabulary Police Cert dated July 1918 and signed by Frances Lowe was found amoung the doc's with a stamped "Permit ? Ireland 6 July 1918 Valid 3 months" I have sent it ArgyllGran to have a look at. Could it be something that was needed for Barbara to come and live with Frances in Sutton Coldfield? the date fits for Barbara's arrival when she was appox 10.