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No father on Marriage cert for Barbara Hall but the birth of both daughter's gives O'Mahoney as mother's maiden name.
The family thinks that Katherine Tynan was Barbara O'Mahoney/Hall aunt surely she was the daughter of John O'Mahony and Nora Tynan? but John died in 1904 and in 1911 Nora had the children living with her, last born in 1903.

Are you sure the births of daughters are correct?

Those births were registered in Watford, but Cuthbert and Barbara were living in Surrey at that time. There are more likely births of children for the couple listed in Surrey.

I think the Griffin/ O'mahoney births are the daughters of Michael Griffin who married in Watford in 1942.
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I suspect the confusion is due to both couples having a daughter Veronica born in the same year.

I doubt there is any connection to the O'Mahoney surname and Barbara.
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So it all rests on which Veronica you are trying to trace the family for?

Unfortunately, 'thinking' isn't fact - and it may be wishful

As there is no sign of any birth record to back up the idea, it may be that you have to accept her name as per the available records.

Something worth noting- on the 1939 register, Barbara is listed with middle initial C.

On the 1936 electoral register, Cuthbert is registered at 9 Manson Mews, Kensington with a CLARA Griffin.

In 1937 he is registered at the same address with Barbara Griffin.

Is it possible that Clara/ Barbara are the same person?
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What was Barbara's address and name of witnesses on marriage?

You are all right again, thinking isn't fact My Veronica A Griffin was born in Surrey in the same year as the other Veronica A Griffin in Watford with mother's maiden name O'Mahoney ( what are the chances of that, when the family convinced O'mahoney was Barbara's name)
My downfall is making assumptions, but Veronica is 100% certain that her mother Barbara's name was O'Mahoney and Katherine Tynan Hinkson as a close relative/poss aunt so there must be a connection. I will be seeing the family of Barbara and Cuthbert tomorrow to get more info but they are certain that there is a connection with O'Mahoney and Tynan familes. Thanks everyone

Nicola what was Barbara's address, and the name of witnesses on the marriage certificate?

If they are certain there is a connection to Katherine Tynan, it might be worth exploring the family of John O'mahoney who married Katherine's sister Honora.

Perhaps he had sisters?

Also bear in mind inconsistencies in the story- if she changed her name when she came to England then it is unlikely that the Barbara Hall on the 1911 Irish census is the correct person.

Where did the name Murial Stewart as a possible Aunt come from?

A bit of trivia,needs checking out as I saw it on ancestry tree.

John and Nora O'Mahoney had Gerrard John Cullen O'Mahoney1900-1948 had son
David Edward Tynan O'Mahoney 1936-2005 he was Dave Allen the Irish comedian.

Maryb.

John O'Mahony
in the Ireland, Catholic Parish Registers, 1655-1915
Name: John O'Mahony
Gender: Male
Event Type: Marriage
Residence Place: Whitehall
Marriage Date: 29 Apr 1895
Marriage Place: Rathfarnham, Ireland, Ireland
Parish Variants: Crumlin, Rathfarnham and Crumlin
Diocese: Dublin
Father: John Francis O'Mahony
Mother: Mary Sheehan
Spouse: Nora Tynan


John O'Mahony
in the Web: Ireland, Census, 1901
Name: John O'Mahony
Gender: Male
Age: 31
Birth Year: abt 1870
Relation to Head: Head
Residence Date: 31 Mar 1901
Townland/Street: Cookstown
District: Tallagh
County: Dublin
Household Members:
Name Age
John O'Mahony 31
Nora O'Mahony 31
Gerard John Cullen O'Mahony 1
Mary O'Farrell 26
Anne Walsh 27



John Francis Omahony
in the Ireland, Select Births and Baptisms, 1620-1911
Name: John Francis Omahony
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 27 Jan 1870
Birth Place: No 6 City, City of Cork, Ireland
Baptism Place: No 6 City, City of Cork, Ireland
Father: John Francis Omahony
Mother: Mary Sheehan
FHL Film Number: 101204


A sister ??

Hannah Omahony
in the Ireland, Select Births and Baptisms, 1620-1911
Name: Hannah Omahony
Gender: Female
Birth Date: 25 Apr 1866
Birth Place: Cork, Cork, Ireland
Father: John Francis Omahony
Mother: Mary Sheehan
FHL Film Number: 101129


Hanna Omahony
in the Web: Ireland, Census, 1901
Name: Hanna Omahony
Gender: Female
Age: 29
Birth Year: abt 1872
Relation to Head: Daughter
Residence Date: 31 Mar 1901
Townland/Street: 27 Sheare's Street
District: Cork Urban No. 7
County: Cork
Household Members:
Name Age
John F Omahony 64
Mary Omahony 60
Hanna Omahony 29
Ellen Omahony 27
Nora Omahony 25
Kate Omahony 22
Kate Corrigan 29

Re Dave Allen that Mary posted,

"David Tynan O'Mahony was born in Firhouse, Dublin, Ireland, the youngest of three sons.[6] His father was Gerard "Cully" Tynan O'Mahony, managing editor of The Irish Times whose mother's sister was the Irish writer Katharine Tynan,[7] and an English mother Jean Archer.[8] His father died when he was aged 12, and his mother subsequently moved the family to England when he was aged 14."

??? Ages don't match 1901 - but address is Sheare's Street.;

Hannah Omahony
in the Web: Ireland, Census, 1911
Name: Hannah Omahony
Gender: Female
Age: 36
Birth Year: abt 1875
Relation to Head: Head
Residence Date: 2 Apr 1911
Townland/Street: 24.1 Sheares Street (North Side)
District: Cork No. 7 Urban (part of)
County: Cork
Household Members:
Name Age
Hannah Omahony 36
Chrisitna Omahony 33
Nora Omahony 32
Catherine Omahony 28
Annie Lillis 27
Maggie Odriscoll 20

Judging by the 1901 census (if I've got the right one) John had plenty of unmarried sisters, any one of whom might have been Barbara's mother - IF she was indeed born in Ireland, and IF there really is any sort of link between Kathleen Tynan and Barbara.


Another inconsistency in the story is Barbara's DOB.
If she chose it herself, then perhaps she wasn't born in 1907-8.

If she chose her DOB, and her surname, then she may also have chosen her first name.
Really, we have no idea who she may have been.


Nicola -
you said she had taken Philip's day and month of birth as hers.
Who is Philip? Have I missed other mention of him?

Phillip was Barbara's and Cuthbert's son born in 1940 and the infomation about her using husband and son's dates of birth came from a relative who has since died. It can't not be true as Barbara gave that DOB of 10th feb 1908 in 1939 register and used the name Hall in 1911. I have since had information that Barbara's mother was unmarried and aged 16/17 when Barbara was born. In 1919 she came to Sutton Coldfield from Ireland to visit her maternal Grandmother( don't know name) .

In that case, her mother can't be one of John O'Mahony's sisters.

Barbara certainly used that DOB in 1939 - but that doesn't help us know when she was actually born - it may have been several years out.

In 1939 she can't have used Philip's day and month of birth, as he wasn't born until the following year.

I don't see any O'Mahoneys in Sutton Coldfield in 1911 - though of course they could have moved there between 1911 and 1919.

There are a number of Halls there in 1911, including this woman born in Dublin:

Elizabeth Hall
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Elizabeth Hall
Age in 1911: 43
Estimated birth year: abt 1868
Relation to Head: Wife
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Dublin, Dublin, Ireland
Civil Parish: Sutton Coldfield
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England
Street address: Hazelmead Chester Road Birmingham
Marital status: Married
Registration district: Aston
Registration District Number: 385
Sub-registration district: Sutton Coldfield
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Piece: 18373
Household Members:
Name Age
Alfred Thomas Hall 42
Elizabeth Hall 43
Winnifred Hall 11 - Belfast
Margaret Benson 39 - nurse (domestic)
Ida Biddle 20 - servant

Married 15 years.

If Barbara's mother was Irish, as you've said, one would assume at least one of her parents to have been Irish.

The family certainly moved around.
Changes in stated POB's doesn't help:

Winifred Hall
in the Web: Ireland, Census, 1901
Name: Winifred Hall
Gender: Female
Age: 1
Birth Year: abt 1900
Relation to Head: Daughter
Residence Date: 31 Mar 1901
Townland/Street: Cyprus Park
District: Pottinger
County: Down
Household Members:
Name Age
Alfred Thomas Hall 32 - drapers buyer, Shropshire.
Elizabeth Hall 33 - Co Wicklow
Winifred Hall 1 - Co Down
Isabella Murray 16 - servant

Parents Alfred Thomas Hall and Elizabeth Hall formerly Williams:

SR District/Reg Area - Belfast
Birth of WINIFRED HALL on 13 January 1900
Name WINIFRED HALL
Date of Birth 13 January 1900
Group Registration ID 60237
SR District/Reg Area Belfast
Sex Female
Mother's Birth Surname WILLIAMS

So parents' marriage:

Marriages Sep 1895 (>99%)
Hall Alfred Thomas Stockport 8a 12
Williams Elizabeth Stockport 8a 12



So I suppose it's possible that Barbara's mother MIGHT be a daughter of Elizabeth, born before 1895.


But equally possible that Elizabeth is a complete red herring.

In desperation, re Barbara - and assuming her stated Dublin birth is correct:

????

SR District/Reg Area - Dublin
Birth of UNKNOWN WILLIAMS on 13 September 1907
Name UNKNOWN WILLIAMS
Date of Birth 13 September 1907
Group Registration ID 694887
SR District/Reg Area Dublin
Sex Female
Mother's Birth Surname WILLIAMS [Ethel Williams, unmarried ]


OR -

SR District/Reg Area - Dublin
Birth of CATHERINE WILLIAMS on 23 November 1908
Name CATHERINE WILLIAMS
Date of Birth 23 November 1908
Group Registration ID 616619
SR District/Reg Area Dublin
Sex Female
Mother's Birth Surname WILLIAMS [ Maggie Williams, unmarried ]


OR -

SR District/Reg Area - Dublin
Birth of LIZZIE WILLIAMS on 24 August 1908
Name LIZZIE WILLIAMS
Date of Birth 24 August 1908
Group Registration ID 540683
SR District/Reg Area Dublin
Sex Female
Mother's Birth Surname WILLIAMS [ Lizzie Williams, unmarried ]


OR -


SR District/Reg Area - Dublin

Birth of LILLIE WILLIAMS on 05 January 1908
Name LILLIE WILLIAMS
Date of Birth 05 January 1908
Group Registration ID 575270
SR District/Reg Area Dublin
Sex Female
Mother's Birth Surname WILLIAMS [ Lilian Agnes Williams, unmarried ]

I am getting bits of info but apparently Barbara's maternal grandmother left Ireland because of relationship with the gardener, who she married and they lived in Sutton Coldfield. Barbara visited them in 1919 and both Grandmother and husband died soon after and Barbara returned to Ireland. At some point Barbara was in a nunnery too, nothing making much sense but I appreciate your help.

I wonder how she ended up in Pocklington, where she married.

You still haven't answered about Barbara's address and witnesses on her marriage certificate. Unless I've missed it