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I've had a look at several pages of the 1939 for Station Road Okehampton, no Harringtons but so far I've found 3 separate entries with draper as their occupation.

I don't know when he joined up, he still gives his first occupation as Drapery Salesman, so presumably the navy wasn't intended as his career. He might not have been in the navy in 1939. But he must have been somewhere :(

Douglas won't appear on the 1939 register, then, (assuming his address was in England) as he was in the forces.

Perhaps Agnes is still a closed record.

Agnes and Montague were in Hastings in July 1939 for the marriage of their daughter, as per Hastings Observer. If they went to Scotland after that to visit Douglas, that would explain why the house was empty in September 1939 when the register was taken. I don't know when he went there, just that he married Annie Kelly Muir in 1944. He was in the navy, so I assumed he'd been posted there.

I've just checked their marriage certificate, by his name it says

Drapery Salesman
(Stoker Royal Navy)
Usual residence Station Road, Okehampton, Devon (now engaged in war work)

I don't know if that adds anything useful though.

In his youth, he was a music hall comedian - his mother, Antonia Pilarski, was a burlesque dancer. Before his marriage he had settled down to a more sober existence, I think that was his last little joke.

I love "Secretary to the Maharajah of Madras" !

That shows real imagination and flair!

Son Douglas may have been in Scotland in 1939, and therefore possibly his parents too.

The only way to check that would be to apply, for a fee, and with a copy of his death cert..

https://tinyurl.com/jelwcab

I'm not sure, but I think that even if a record was found for him in Scotland in 1939, you wouldn't be told who else was at his address - you'd have to apply separately for the record of each person you hoped was there.

Not a helpful or user-friendly system!


There are a number of Harringtons in Scotland on the 1935 Valuation Rolls - but no Douglas, Agnes, or Montague.

No, not so far - in 1944 he married Anne's mother, Annie Kelly Muir, in Edinburgh.

I thought finding Anne's mother's side was hard enough (to recap, she knew nothing about her mother except she was born in Edinburgh and stayed with a grandmother in Broxburn. She even had her mother's name wrong, registering her death as Anne Mary Harrington . I spent weeks looking for Anne Mary Muir, only to discover Muir was her step father, her real birth name was Annie Kelly), so I thought the Harringtons would be a doddle. Apart from not finding them in the 1939, its been ok, just can't find anything for Agnes M Kelly.

I hoped that her marriage certificate would give more clues, but father Michael, dec'd, commercial traveller, has been no help at all. Perhaps she took a leaf out of my mother in law's father's book - his father was a London photographer, but on his marriage certificate he's down as Secretary to the Maharajah of Madras!

Sorry it doesn't look like the above.

Millicent Agnes Reynolds nee Cox married William 1935 in 1945 they are at the same address and Agnes is down as Millicent Agnes.

It's strange they can't be found in 1939,did you find son Douglas in 1939?

Maryb

There's also one closed record with that couple - at last on Ancestry. FMP may be more up-to-date.

The address is in Biggleswade, Beds.

Apart from the husband's first name and his occupation, it all seems to fit.
and his age is a year out, but the quarter is correct.

Clutching at straws again - this from the 1939 Register:

http://prntscr.com/mybz6b

Agnes married Montague Douglas, but there were a lot of Williams in the family, and they were bootmakers and linen drapers. Montague was born c1871.

Agnes Kelly born 1889 in Liverpool, confirmed 1910, took the baptismal name of Maria.

http://prntscr.com/mybsid

The one on confirmation was at the same address in 1911 as a servant born Somerset,so not the one that was at Nazerath House.

Maryb.

Now that is interesting - in 1901 Agnes Kelly was a pupil at Nazareth House, and in 1911 she was servant. Nazareth House was an old people's home and Industrial School for RC girls, which I believe housed impoverished or delinquent children. So once she was too old to be a pupil, she was employed by them as dining room maid, which implies no family to go back to.

There's also an Elizabeth Kelly, inmate, but she's 75.

That's very interesting, Mary, thank you - I'll see if I can find the 1912 confirmation, perhaps it will show the name she took then. I looked at the Weymouth death, but can find no reason why she should have been there, none of the other family members seem to have moved out that far.

Nazareth House sounds like some sort of refuge.

Every time I see someone listed as Dressmaker I remember being told that that was often a euphemism for prostitute. Now that would be funny, for very religious prim and proper grandmama.

I keep looking at this

1901 Nazereth House Isleworth London
Agnes Kelly born 1888 a scholar born London

1911 Nazereth House Isleworth
Agnes Kelly 1888 London dining room maid

?? Agnes getting confirmed 1912 age 22 at St Marys Balham her address was 346 Cavendish Road
Balham to Chelsea 3/4 miles

Isleworth to Chelsea @ 9 miles.

There are various records for Agnes Kelly a Dressmaker born 1888 in Parish of St Luke Chelsea workhouse, seems she had a daughter Agnes Theresa Kelly 18/4/1912 V1a P 682 this Agnes spent time in Chelsea workhouse infirmary including 4/11/1913 maybe this is her death
Agnes Kelly born @ 1912 died O/N/D 1913 BermondseyV1d P215.

Bermondsey to Elystan Street 5miles


Agnes Mary Harrington born @ 1888 died Weymouth Dorset1966 V7c P841.

I can't find a Agnes to match the above in 1891 census.

Maryb.

Anne's blood maternal great grandmother was Margaret Kelly nee Ellison - Annie Scullion was her step-great grandmother.

The story of the French connection to Annie Scullion came from the contact I made in Australia, whom Anne didn't know: the French connection to paternal grandmother Agnes came from Anne herself - so it is just coincidence. Sometimes fact is indeed stranger than fiction.

If Agnes was 26 in 1916, surely she must be somewhere in the 1901 and 1911 - I'm going round in circles looking for her. And where the heck were they in 1939?

Yes, the whole Kelly scenario is very confusing.
[EDIT: Oops, you've deleted a post saying how confusing the Kellys are.]

Looking back through the two threads -

On her mother's side, your Anne is the grand-daughter of Annie Kelly nee Scullion (born 1877, domestic servant and daughter of a labourer in Broxburn), who was rumoured to have gone to a French finishing school, and liked to pray in French.


On her father's side, your Anne is the grand-daughter of Agnes Mary Kelly, born c1890, who was a governess at marriage, but is rumoured to have worked for a French fashion house.


Neither of them seems like an obvious candidate for either of the French stories, and it seems a big coincidence that both Anne's grandmothers have a French rumour attached to them.

Is family legend mixing up the two women?

This is the record I found of an Agnes M Kelly in a 1911 trade register, but she wasn't at the Vincent Square address in the 1911 census.

http://prntscr.com/my749w

I found Nora Bickley, she was at her home address in the census, listed as owner of typewriting service.

Kathleen married 1. Alfred Russell, and 2. Philip Davies, and between those 2 she changed her name to Westover and had a daughter.