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British Army, Worldwide Index 1871
First name(s) Thos H
Last name Capps
Service number 1490
Rank Private
Unit or Regiment 1st Bn 12th (East Suffolk) Regiment of Foot
HQ location Preston
Notes
Attached from 109th Regt <<<<<<<<
Year 1871
Country Great Britain
National Archives reference WO 12/2999
Period 01/04/1871-30/06/1871
Possibly attached for pay purposes etc as previous record posted says he didn't leave India until 20th April
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It looks like Winifred was also listed as being with her parents in 1901
Name:Gertrude A Wride
Age:20
Estimated birth year:abt 1881
Relation to Head:Daughter
Gender:Female
Father:Lewis C Wride
Mother:Lydia Wride
Birth Place:Bristol
Civil Parish:Bristol
Ecclesiastical parish:Easton All Hallows
County/Island:Gloucestershire
Registration district:Bristol
Sub-registration district:St George
ED, institution, or vessel:04
Piece:2388
Folio:71
Page Number:31
Household schedule number:182
Lewis C Wride 47 Commission agent
Lydia Wride 47
Louise V Wride 25 School teacher
Gertrude A Wride 20 ? Assistant
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Trying to work this out, so they lied about being married when Reginald was 5 as I have their marriage certificate. They got married in September 1920 and were living at 130 Great fitchfield street Marylebone.
The birth certificate I have for Reginald says he was born 1906 and the mother was Winifred Wrilde address 23 Clarence street.
So that fact it says child would mean Ida ( Elizabeth ) Capps was not the mother? In fact it was Winifred?
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Name PERCY CAPPS
Date of Birth 1875
Group Registration ID 9476691
SR District/Reg Area Mullingar
Sex N/R
Mother's Birth Surname N/R
Image - Date and place of birth definitely says 1874 - looks like a late registration as date of reg. is March 30th 1875
30.9.1874 @ Military Barracks, Mullingar
Percy George Mark Capps
s/o Thomas Harland Capps and Elizabeth Capps formerly Newick
Father - Colour Sergeant 109th Regt.
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Walter and Winifred together on 1901 census in Bristol
Ida with parents in St Pancras
Winifred gives birth to Reginald in 1905 in London - did Walter and Winifred go to London together for whatever reason?
Winifred back with parents in 1911 in Bristol. Mother's didn't have many rights as far as children were concerned.
Walter with Ida and Reginald in 1911. For respectability, saying they had been married for 7 years would cover having 5 year old Reginald with them.
Think you'll never know the answer for sure.
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Wonder whether they lied on the birth certificate and gave Winifred as the mum as they werent married
Was a father named
As Ida was in st Pancras I would say she was the mum and they lied with the name to cover up
They were living as husband and wife in the London area in 1911
Think there was some porkies being told to cover up that they weren't married
Cant think they had Reginald with them in 1911 if he wasn't their son
Also Winifred on the 1911 census says married 13 years no children born
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Name: Reginald C Appleby
Registration Date: Apr-May-Jun 1929
Registration district: Marylebone
Inferred County: Middlesex
Spouse: Olive M Hayes
Volume Number: 1a
Page Number: 1375
Does he give Walter as his father on the cert
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Walter is named as his father on both.
Seems a lot of lies were told.
I know Winfred had curvature of the spine.
And as you’ve found the census saying no child born maybe she was unaware they or Walter had lied on the birth certificate but she had already lied saying Walter was dead.
Two options really but I will never know for sure
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Couples separated all the time back then, at least as often as now.
It is quite common to find that one or both will then describe themselves as either single or widowed in the future ......... it was much more respectable than saying "separated", and divorce was usually beyond the reach of all but the very rich.
An older woman might find that she felt more comfortable saying "widow" than "single", especially if the spouse was not living in the same town.
Therefore not surprising to see that Winifred called herself "widow", and she was telling the truth about children as the question on the 1911 was whether the WOMAN had had any children, not children of the marriage!
Following on from that ............... Walter and Ida were also telling the truth in saying that Reginald was Ida's son!
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And if Ida and Walter weren’t married even though they lied putting Idas name down would of made him illegitimate which also wasn’t acceptable.
In the 1911 census it says she was married so she must of declared herself a widow once she entered the workhouse..
Can any see a census of when Walter was still living with his siblings ?
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Walter 1881/1891 - address as per 1911 census for where born.
1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census
42, Aldenham Street, St Pancras, London & Middlesex, England
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Henry Appleby Head Married Male 49 1832 Furrier St Andrew's, Middlesex, England
Ann Appleby Wife Married Female 50 1831 - Westminster, Middlesex, England
Louise A Appleby Daughter Single Female 20 1861 Teacher (School) Marylebone, Middlesex, England
Henry Appleby Son Single Male 17 1864 Fur Nailer Marylebone, Middlesex, England
Ada E Appleby Daughter Single Female 15 1866 Christmas Card Mounter Marylebone, Middlesex, England
Zean G Appleby Son Single Male 11 1870 Scholar St Pancras, Middlesex, England
Arthur E Appleby Son Single Male 9 1872 Scholar St Pancras, Middlesex, England
Walter C Appleby Son Single Male 6 1875 Scholar St Pancras, Middlesex, England
George Burridge Boarder - Male 72 1809 Architect St Pancras, Middlesex, England
Jemima P Taylder Lodger Single Female 68 1813 Needlewoman Penryn, Cornwall, England
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1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Aldenham Street, St Pancras, London & Middlesex, England
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Henry Appleby Head Married Male 59 1832 Furrier London, Middlesex, England
Ann Appleby Wife Married Female 60 1831 - London, Middlesex, England
Henry Appleby Son Single Male 27 1864 Furrier London, Middlesex, England
Ada Appleby Daughter Single Female 24 1867 Postman Marylebone, Middlesex, England
Arthur Appleby Son - Male 18 1873 Oil Shopman London, Middlesex, England
Walter Appleby Son - Male 16 1875 Postman London, Middlesex, England
George Burridge Boarder Single Male 82 1809 Artist London, Middlesex, England
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Joy - all sorts of lies were told then as now. Just because she said she was married in 1911 - how would anyone at the Workhouse/workhouse hospital know that? Or if she did say she was married but abandoned for example, how could they trace the husband?
Likewise, if Reginald was hers (and after all he was given her maiden name when his birth was registered) but she had left him - for whatever reason - why did she need to admit that on the census form - who would know? She was a respectable school teacher.
It has always been my understanding that the census was asking "How many children born to the present marriage - if no children born write none." It then subdivides and asks Total children born alive, Children still living, children who have died.
Her Mother incorrectly completed this section as she was a widow and the answers have been crossed through (as has Winifred's 13 years as it happens - maybe a mistake too)
Maybe if the marriage was in trouble she didn't tell her family, had the child in London and returned home.
If Ida had always been around Reginald perhaps never knew the difference and all looked right on the census form.
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Thank you for all your help.
It’s interesting to see Walter was still with the family aged 16 years and as a postman as later he became a piano tuner the story my father was told was that he was paid to leave the family and he never had contact with them again he was around 17 years old when this happened. My Granfather never said why, seems he weaved a tangled web! I did find him going out to New York when he was 22 and returning soon after and then in Bristol.
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