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According to an article I have from James Browns' death, James only had 4 surviving siblings, Mary, Prudence, Thomas and Daniel. So that means that John Brown was deceased by 1902.

Kelly

Yes, my Thomas is Caucasian.

I am surprised that the parents' birthplaces would be wrong on so many years though. Aren't they asking family members? Weird. But I agree that the address is the same and is likely his census'

I have looked at CastleGarden before but so many Thomas Browns and no way for me to tell which would be mine. Thank you for the other site. It will be very helpful.

I too only have info on John Brown from the 1880 census.

Thank you again all
Kelly

I had already discounted the 5th September 1886 death as the certificate also records that Thomas as a widow.

Dea- I am also suspicious. I'm doubting they were even married, or perhaps married to other people! I had also wondered if Thomas were still alive.

There are also a few other possible shipping records for Thomas Browns travelling to Pennsylvania. It is such a common name :-|

I've been trying to find out what happened to Thomas's son, John (he appears in the 1880 census age 8)- just in case his whereabouts can shed any light on Thomas, but so far no joy on finding him after 1880.

The 1880 census for Thomas and Sarah with children John, Mary, James, and Prudence, in Bear Valley (already posted) says Thomas is white.

Also the 1870, for Thomas & Sarah, in Trevorton.

I thought I had posted this but obviously not ................


I don't have access to the actual article to read it properly but if you can contact a library in Pensylvania they might look it up for you as we have the date + publication etc. ?
Philadelphia InquirerFriday, September 10, 1886, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, United States Of America
Thomas Brown, colored, of g Madison’s court, death caused-hy consuna of the lungs.

It obviously relates to the person who died on 5th September 1886 and states that he was in fact a coloured gentleman which is also clear from a copy of his death cert which can be seen on familysearch site.
I assumed, rightly or wrongly, that 'our' Thomas was of white ethnicity ? If so, this is not 'our' Thomas although I cannot believe that there would be another death of someone of the same name exactly 1 year later (to the very day!) - it is too much of a co-incidence'.

There is something VERY strange going on here which leads my 'suspicious mind' to think that maybe Sarah's husband was not in fact dead at all? (That's just me though!!!)

Dea x

There are several sites which I use for old passenger lists Kelly. I probably got the above info firstly from the CastleGarden site:


http://www.castlegarden.org/searcher.php

This is searchable by name of the person and then it is a matter of going through them all to see if one fits.

If you find one it will give the name of ship and arrival date so you can then search again just on the ship details and the surname and you will be able to see who else of the same surname arrived on that ship at the same time.

You can then look on another site to see if you can view the actual passenger list as it was written so that you can see which of those same surnames have been grouped together and therefore are probably all of the same family. You could use the morman 'familysearch' site for this which has the images, or the site below which has lots of detailed transcriptions:

https://www.immigrantships.net/index.html

It is all very 'long-winded' but if you put in the time and effort you can find lots of useful info.

You will see that there are MANY entries on the castle garden site for people named Thomas Brown who 'could' fit with the one we are looking for, especially as we don't even know when he arrived but if you are interested enough to go through the above with every one you may come up with a winner.

You can also look for baptisms etc of these people and try to link them together and then see if they can be found on US census's which can also be viewed on familysearch site.

Dea x

EDIT:
Just a thought - you might find it useful to have a starting point on the 'immigrantships' site as it is a bit strange to navigate.

If you first click on the link to site and then when you get onto the first page it will give a little search box towards the top and to the left saying 'Search ISTG' - in this instance, for the passage I gave you above, type in Colorado1868 - This will take you to some results and you will want the 5th May journey.

You will see this journey listed and it shows page 2 of 3 and page 3 of 3. Your surname ' Brown' will be on page 1 so if you look at the bottom of the list of results you will see :

ISTG - SS Colorado
Transcribers Guild SS Colorado 5 May 1868 Liverpool, Eng. via Queenstown, Ire. to New York 30 March 1871 Liverpool, England to New York If you find an ancestor on a ship on ISTG

Click on that one and you will then be able to click on the journey you want and it will show you page one where your info is (I told you it was 'long-winded' ;-))

As you will see, the 2 Thomas's, Rose, and Brid(get?) appear to be together so probably the same family but Patrick is lower down so 'may' not be connected.

Have fun..............

Dea x

Parents' birthplaces are frequently wrong on US censuses.

The 1920, 1930 and 1940 census above show Daniel at 51 Wyoming Street, which was his address at the time of his death, per his death record.

Sorry, I do not know what the T stands for.

I also have the same information regarding Thomas' burial and will be checking into it more when we go to Pennsylvania in the spring.

Where did you come across the passage information? That is new for me.

Some of the Daniel Brown info is not the right one. The 1920 and 1930 census' are not the right ones. I do not think the 1910 one is the right one either. They are stating his parents were born in Pennsylvania or both from England.

Kelly

Aha!

Daniel Joseph Brown
in the U.S., World War II Draft Registration Cards, 1942
Name: Daniel Joseph Brown
Gender: Male
Residence Age: 56
Birth Date: 10 Dec 1886 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Birth Place: Johnstown, Pennsylvania, USA
Residence Date: 1942
Residence Place: Cambria, Pennsylvania, USA

Address: 51 Wyoming Street <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

His address at death was 51 Wyoming Street (per the death record which is definitely for the right person).
Informant : James Brown


Daniel and family in 1940, at Wyoming St:

Daniel Brown
in the 1940 United States Federal Census
Name: Daniel Brown
Age: 53
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1887
Gender: Male
Race: White
Birthplace: Pennsylvania
Marital Status: Married
Relation to Head of House: Head
Home in 1940: Westmont, Cambria, Pennsylvania
Map of Home in 1940: View Map
Street: Wyoming Street
House Number: 51
Farm: No
Inferred Residence in 1935: Westmont, Cambria, Pennsylvania
Residence in 1935: Same House
Sheet Number: 2B
Number of Household in Order of Visitation: 33
Occupation: Salesman
House Owned or Rented: Owned
Value of Home or Monthly Rental if Rented: 1400
Attended School or College: No
Highest Grade Completed: Elementary school, 8th grade
Hours Worked Week Prior to Census: 55
Class of Worker: Wage or salary worker in private work
Weeks Worked in 1939: 52
Income: 1000
Income Other Sources: No
Neighbors:
Household Members:
Name Age
Daniel Brown 53
Anna Brown 52
Jane Brown 16
James Brown 27
Penelope Brown 24



Daniel J Brown
in the 1930 United States Federal Census
Name: Daniel J Brown
Birth Year: abt 1887
Gender: Male
Race: White
Birthplace: Pennsylvania
Marital Status: Married
Relation to Head of House: Head
Home in 1930: Westmont, Cambria, Pennsylvania, USA
Map of Home: View Map
Street address: Wymoning Street
House Number: 51
Dwelling Number: 143
Family Number: 160
Home Owned or Rented: Owned
Home Value: 1, 400
Radio Set: No
Lives on Farm: No
Age at First Marriage: 21
Attended School: No
Able to Read and Write: Yes
Father's Birthplace: England
Mother's Birthplace: England
Able to Speak English: Yes
Occupation: Laborer
Industry: Steam Railroad Steel Mill
Class of Worker: Wage or salary worker
Employment: Yes
Household Members:
Name Age
Daniel J Brown 43
Anna Brown 42
Joseph Brown 20
James Brown 17
Rita Brown 14
Mary Brown 11
Jane Brown 7


Daniel T Brown
in the 1920 United States Federal Census
Name: Daniel T Brown
[David T Brown]
Age: 34
Birth Year: abt 1886
Birthplace: Pennsylvania
Home in 1920: Westmont, Cambria, Pennsylvania
Street: Wyoming Street
House Number: 51
Residence Date: 1920
Race: White
Gender: Male
Relation to Head of House: Head
Marital Status: Married
Spouse's Name: Anna Brown
Father's Birthplace: Pennsylvania
Mother's Birthplace: Pennsylvania
Able to Speak English: Yes
Occupation: Fard Master
Industry: R R Heel Co
Employment Field: Wage or Salary
Home Owned or Rented: Own
Able to Read: Yes
Able to Write: Yes
Neighbors:
Household Members:
Name Age
Daniel T Brown 34
Anna Brown 32
Thomas Brown 11
Joseph Brown 10
James Brown 7
Rita Brown 3
Betty Brown 0


Daniel Brown
in the 1910 United States Federal Census
Name: Daniel Brown
Age in 1910: 23
Birth Year: abt 1887
Birthplace: Pennsylvania
Home in 1910: Johnstown Ward 18, Cambria, Pennsylvania
Street: Maryland Avenue
House Number: 1317
Race: White
Gender: Male
Relation to Head of House: Head
Marital Status: Married
Spouse's Name: Annie Brown
Father's Birthplace: Pennsylvania
Mother's Birthplace: Pennsylvania
Native Tongue: English
Occupation: Laborer
Industry: Steel Co
Employer, Employee or Other: Wage Earner
Home Owned or Rented: Rent
Farm or House: House
Able to Read: Yes
Able to Write: Yes
Years Married: 3
Out of Work: N
Number of weeks out of work: 0
Neighbors:
Household Members:
Name Age
Daniel Brown 23
Annie Brown 22
Tom Brown 2
Joe Brown 4/12


Any records for the children unfortunately only refer to him as Daniel J - so far as I've found so far.

Is this him, in spite of slightly different dates ??


Daniel Joseph Brown
in the U.S., Find A Grave Index, 1600s-Current
Name: Daniel Joseph Brown
Birth Date: 10 Dec 1886
Birth Place: Johnstown, Cambria County, Pennsylvania, United States of America
Death Date: 13 Jul 1945
Death Place: Johnstown, Cambria County, Pennsylvania, United States of America
Cemetery: Grandview Cemetery
Burial or Cremation Place: Johnstown, Cambria County, Pennsylvania, United States of America
Has Bio?: N
Spouse: Anna Cecelia Brown
Children: Rita B. Kaufman


The death record for reference:

Daniel J Brown
in the Pennsylvania, Death Certificates, 1906-1966
Name: Daniel J Brown
Gender: Male
Race: White
Age: 58
Birth Date: 26 Dec 1886
Birth Place: Johnstown, Pennsylvania
Death Date: 3 Jan 1945
Death Place: Johnstown, Cambria, Pennsylvania, USA
Father: Thomas Brown
Mother: Sarah Cooper
Spouse: Anna Brown
Certificate Number: 58584

O.K. then, we must take it that he was most probably born in Ireland. So, I found this passage over for several Brown's in 1868 but I can't be sure that they were all of the same family:

Ship - Colorado

BROWN BRID 21 F 5 May 1868
BROWN PATRICK 24 M 5 May 1868 - potter, pot maker
BROWN ROSE 40 F 5 May 1868 wife
BROWN THOMAS 20 M 5 May 1868 - Labourer
BROWN THOMAS 59 M 5 May 1868 - labourer
All from Ireland...............

I haven't been able to follow them through as yet.

I also found a burial in Pensylvania for a Thomas Brown in 1887 which is what Sarah put on their marriage request for his death but there are no details on this Thomas other than the fact thaqt he died:


????
Thomas Brown
Birth unknown
Death 1887
Burial
Allegheny Cemetery
Pittsburgh, Allegheny County, Pennsylvania, USA
Plot Section: 35 Lot: A Single Grave: 198
Memorial ID 122206648 · View Source

Perhaps you could contact the Cemetery and see if they have anything further on him?

Do you know what his son Daniel's middle name was?

Dea x

Thomas is also listed as from Ireland (Sarah from England) on the death certificate of his son Daniel J Brown, and death certificate of his daughter Prudence Stein.

Neither deaths have Thomas with a middle initial

Dea -

My first posts on this thread give his daughter Mary's birth and death.
Both say Thomas was from Ireland, and the death record gives the middle initial T.

The 1880 census posted by Malyon also says he was from Ireland.

There doesn't seem to be anything which explains the T.


On the other hand, the death record says Sarah was from Wales, when she was actually born in Staffordshire - so perhaps we can't trust the info re Thomas!

Kelly,

if we 'presume' that 'our' Thomas is not the son of Denis & Mary, do you know for a fact that he was Irish or does this come from thinking he belonged to that couple?

I am not sure which record I saw his middle initial of 'T' - do we know what the 'T' stands for please?

Dea x

Yes Dea, this is why I am trying to find more information on Thomas T Brown because I do not believe that Denis and Mary are my Thomas' parents but I am finding it hard to locate other documentation on my Thomas. I still have some tricks up my sleeve though. I plan on visiting more Pennsylvania sites in the spring to find more information.

AustinQ that is exactly where I got his death date from. I am trying to get in touch with a family member to go through their photos and documentation and hopefully I can find an actual certificate or record that belongs to my Thomas.

Thank you for your help!
Kelly

I have just found these details on the 'Find a grave' site relating to Denis + Mary (nee Leary)'s deaths but I find it strange that if they already had a child named Thomas, why would they name another one Thomas while the first is still alive?

It is not impossible as I once came across a family who had several children and had given all the girls the one same name (I think it was Mary) and all the boys also shared the same name (I can't remember what that was). However, this would be extremely unusual.

You can see the details here:

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/160071234/thomas-w_-brown

The following details are given:


** Thomas W. Brown
Birth 1850
Boston, Suffolk County, Massachusetts, USA
Death 22 May 1867 (aged 16–17)
Boston, Suffolk County, Massachusetts, USA
Burial
Mount Calvary Cemetery
Roslindale, Suffolk County, Massachusetts, USA
Memorial ID 160071234 · View Source



Family Members
Parents

Dennis Brown
1811–1877
Mary Leary Brown
1810–1883

Siblings

Hannah Brown (later married a Bresnahan)
1837–1915
William Brown
1837–1856
Julia Brown
1843–1859
Mary Ann Brown
1851–1861
Bridget Brown
1853–1853
Dennis Harry Brown
1854–1855
Arthur Brown
1858–1859

Obviously these burials will need to be checked but if they prove correct then it sheds doubt as to whether or not we have the correct parents for 'our' Thomas'.


Name
Mary Brown
Maiden Name
Leary
Birth Date
1810
Birth Place
County Cork, Ireland
Death Date
3 Oct 1883
Death Place
Boston, Suffolk County, Massachusetts, United States of America
Cemetery
Mount Calvary Cemetery
Burial or Cremation Place
Roslindale, Suffolk County, Massachusetts, United States of America
Has Bio?
Y
Spouse
Dennis Brown
Children
Bridget Brown
URL
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/160060869


Dea x

The death date of 5th September 1887 is given as the death date of Sarah's first husband Thomas on the documents for application for marriage of Sarah Brown to Mr. Reilly.

A copy of the actual document is shown on a tree on Ancestry.

Dea x

Where did you get his death date from?

Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, Death Certificates Index, 1803-1915
Name: Thomas Brown
Birth Date: abt 1846
Death Date: 5 Sep 1886
Death Place: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
Age at Death: About 40
Gender: Male
FHL Film Number: 2025918
-------------------------------------

EDIT: Not this 1886 death- this thomas was a widower

So sorry to not have replied till now. I am new to any message board and with the holidays, been very busy.

Thomas T Brown is my 2nd Great Grandfather. Born in 1846 in Ireland. Immigrated to US and lived in Pennsylvania. Married Sarah Cooper in 1869. Was a miner. Died on September 5, 1887 in Johnstown, Pennsylvania. I am still trying to locate his grave and death certificate or record.

You have the correct Thomas Brown. I do have all the information you have found. I am trying to find his parents, or any Ireland information. The tree that states he was born on August 30 is actually his baptismal date. I am trying to find proof that Mary Leary and Denis Brown are his parents. The trees that state Mary and Denis are his parents have Thomas' death date different then I have so I am questioning if this is my Thomas. Need that proof.

The Sarah Cooper you found in the census as "in the family" is her grandmother. And yes, Sarah's parents lived a few doors down from her. I have actually visited some of the homes in Pennsylvania.

I do not know where they married but I believe it would be in Pennsylvania because the 1870 census states they were married in December of the year before. I believe they were married in 1869 and that both were in the states then. I do not have his immigration date though.

Sarah did marry Peter Riley and I am in contact with the Riley family and I have a wonderful picture of Sarah. Wish I could find one of Thomas.

Again, so sorry for the late response. I really appreciate all the work you all have done.