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Yvonne
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6 Dec 2018 01:10 |
How did you find this article, I can't seem to find it. It definitely confirms that it's our James though. I guess he was then sentenced to 12 months.
As to the info from AG I'm still trying to sort it out but she could be onto something.
Wish they didn't all move around so much.
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AustinQ
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5 Dec 2018 08:44 |
AG- nice find. I think that is the father of our James. Maybe our James had already moved to Ireland for work by 1851, so wasn't with his family?
There is an article in 1877 which refers to the bigamy case- again, I don't have access but have tried to piece it together:
"On Monday, at the Liverpool Police Court, an elderly man named Jas. H. Brock, Irish game keeper, was charged with having committed bigamy at Sheffield. The prisoner was married in 1858 to his first wife Margaret Jane, and in August last while she was alive he again went through the form of marriage, at Sheffield, with Ellen Hannah. The magistrate remanded him for a week."
27 October 1877 - Sheffield Independent - Sheffield, Yorkshire, England
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Yvonne
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5 Dec 2018 00:34 |
Just been going through the info from ArgyllGran. If my James Edwin was the bigamist then he can't be the same James who died in 1876, since he married his second wife in 1877, so is my James Edwin the son of the James who died in 1876 as ArgyllGran suggested - I don't know. On a marriage record for my James and Margaret Jane his father was shown as James, so could be.
Interesting.
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Yvonne
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5 Dec 2018 00:25 |
Since he married Ellen Hanna in 1877 I thought he should show up in the 1881 census but I couldn't find any sign of him or Ellen or Margaret Jane.
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Yvonne
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5 Dec 2018 00:08 |
Thanks ArgyllGran, that's a lot of info so I'll have to look at it more closely.
As to the two references that Austin gave, I've had a look at both of them and things do get more interesting. One of the references just says that he was charged and convicted of bigamy and sentenced to 12 months.
The second one was a bit more forthcoming and gave more detail. It gave his name, and under his name it said - Liverpool Borough Prison, 30 September 1876, stealing wearing apparel. On remand and discharged. The next column gave his age as 47, trade as none, it gives dates of the warrant and when he was received into custody and then a description of the offence as charged, which reads as - Having at Sheffield on 9 August 1877 feloniously married Ellen Hanna, his former wife being alive.
I checked on freeBMD for the marriage to Ellen and sure enough, he married her in Sheffield in 1877.
Seems he was quite a character.
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ArgyllGran
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4 Dec 2018 19:18 |
Birth:
BROCK JAMES JAMES BROCK/ISABELLA EMBLETON FR444 (FR444) M 14/05/1827 601/ 30 42 Kirkoswald
But no middle name.
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ArgyllGran
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4 Dec 2018 19:13 |
James (son) isn't with the family in 1851
Frances Brock [ Francis ] in the 1851 England Census Name: Frances Brock Age: 18 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1833 Relation: Son Father's name: James Brock Mother's name: Isabella Brock Gender: Male Where born: Rufford, Nottinghamshire, England Civil Parish: Rufford Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Maps: View related Ecclesiastical Parish County/Island: Nottinghamshire Country: England Registration district: Southwell Sub-registration district: Kneesal ED, institution, or vessel: 3 Neighbors: Household schedule number: 12 Piece: 2135 Folio: 41 Page Number: 7 Household Members: Name Age James Brock 50 - Somesfield, Notts - park and game keeper Isabella Brock 50 - Haggerston, Northumberland Charles Brock 20 - Kirkoswald, Ayrshire Frances Brock 18 John Brock 13 - Kirkoswald Isabella Cartlidge 27 - daughter, Kirkoswald Elizth Brock 20 - Kirkoswald Chas Cartlidge 39 - son-in-law, Wellon [?], Notts Mary L N 19 - servant Isac Charnes 37 - servant
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ArgyllGran
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4 Dec 2018 18:51 |
Perhaps your James Edwin is a son of that James who died in 1876 ??
(And perhaps you already know all this ??)
James Brock in the 1841 England Census Name: James Brock Age: 15 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1826 Gender: Male Where born: Scotland Civil Parish: Rufford(Liberty) Hundred: Bassetlaw (Hatfield Division) County/Island: Nottinghamshire Country: England Registration district: Southwell Sub-registration district: Kneesal Neighbors: Piece: 851 Book: 5 Folio: 8 Page Number: 10 Household Members: Name Age James Brock 40 - Park keeper - not born in county Frederick Brock 20 - gamekeeper, not born in county James Brock 15 - born Scotland <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Charles Brock 10 - Scotland Francis Brock 8 - Scotland John Brock 2 - Nottinghamshire Isabella Brock 40 - not born in Notts. Mary Brock 20 - Scotland Isabella Brock 15 - Scotland Hannah Brock 15 - Scotland Elizabeth Brock 10 - Scotland Benjaman Brock 10 - Scotland
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ArgyllGran
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4 Dec 2018 18:44 |
??? This would make a nonsense of some of those census records - but would fit with Margaret Jane being a widow when she died in 1883. Perhaps the sons were from his first marriage, and Margaret was the second (bigamous?) wife.
James Brock in the England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1966, 1973-1995 Name: James Brock Death Date: 2 Apr 1876 Death Place: Nottingham, England Probate Date: 11 May 1876 Registry: Nottingham, England
BROCK, James. 11 May 1876. The Will of James Brock, late of Rufford Park Lodge near Ollerton in the County of Nottingham, Park-keeper and Gamekeeper who died 2nd April 1876 at Ruffington Park Lodge was proved at Nottingham by Frederick Edward Brock of Normanton-on-Soar in the said County, Gamekeeper, and John Thomas Brock of Eakring in the said County, Joiner, the Sons two of the Executors. Effects: under £3000.
EDIT:
But no - following that up - this is Frederick in 1871 - far too old to be your James Edwin's son:
Frederick E Brock in the 1871 England Census Name: Frederick E Brock Age: 54 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1817 Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Mary Ann Brock Gender: Male Where born: Wallington, Norfolk, England Civil Parish: Rufford Town: Rufford County/Island: Nottinghamshire Country: England Registration district: Southwell Sub-registration district: Kneesal ED, institution, or vessel: 7 Household schedule number: 23 Piece: 3536 Folio: 22 Page Number: 6 Household Members: Name Age Frederick E Brock 54 - gamekeeper Mary Ann Brock 50 Lucy Brock 20 Arthur Brock 18 Edwin Brock 14 Eliza Brock 13 Elizabeth Ward Brock 10 William J Brock 9 Ellen Brock 7
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Yvonne
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4 Dec 2018 16:59 |
Thanks Austin ... just on my way out but will check those two records when I get back.
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AustinQ
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4 Dec 2018 16:23 |
I think it's likely the bigamy record is for the same James.
FMP has two records under Crime, Prisons & Punishment for James Edwin Brock, the one stating he was born 1830. Wondered if that record had anymore details on it.
Just for info- the family went through a really tough time, son James dying age 8, and also Lucy Jane dying in 1881 (Irvinestown), just aged 16. Interestingly Lucy doesn't appear to be with the family in 1871.
Death: Lucy Jane Brock death date: 22 Feb 1881 Place: Irvinestown Age: 16 years Occupation: Servant Cause: phthisis pulmonalis 4 months Informant: Jane Brock
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Yvonne
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3 Dec 2018 19:44 |
Yes, looks like James did die in childhood, so though he was born in Kildare he died in Irvinestown where sister Margaret Catherine was born in 1873. Interestingly, two (possibly three) children born between James and Margaret Catherine were born in England. Maybe the reason is because of the bigamy conviction mentioned above!!
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ArgyllGran
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3 Dec 2018 19:36 |
Did James Irving die in childhood?
James Brock in the Ireland, Civil Registration Deaths Index, 1864-1958 Name: James Brock Estimated Birth Year: abt 1868 Date of Registration: 1876 Death Age: 8 Registration district: Irvinestown Volume: 7 Page: 138 FHL Film Number: 101588
I suspect the family were in Ireland at the time of the 1881 census.
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Yvonne
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3 Dec 2018 19:24 |
Well that's interesting. The record says he was convicted of bigamy on 29 Oct 1877 in Liverpool and was sentenced to 12 months. Don't know how we find if it's the same James Edwin though.
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AustinQ
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3 Dec 2018 19:17 |
Ahhh, yes, I think when Ollerton was stated in 1871, it was meant to be Ollerton in Nottinghamshire, rather than Cheshire.
This is James in 1901:
Name: James Brock Age: 71 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1830 Relation to Head: Boarder Gender: Male Birth Place: Rufford, Nottinghamshire, England Civil Parish: East Adderbury Town: East Adderbury County/Island: Oxfordshire Registration district: Banbury Sub-registration district: Bloxham ED, institution, or vessel: 10 Piece: 1401 Folio: 114 Page Number: 6 Household schedule number: 28 Household Members: Name Age
Elizabeth Hopcraft 52 James Brock 71 Boarder, Widower, ordinary AG Lab, Rufford, Notts -------------------------
Note that Rufford is just 2 miles south of Ollerton, Nottingham
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AustinQ
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3 Dec 2018 19:01 |
Although 1871 states Ollerton, Cheshire, I'm wondering if it was meant as Ollerton, Nottingham? Worth keeping in mind.
I don't have access to FMP, but wondering if this record was related to your James Edwin?: (Perhaps someone could look?)
Brock James Edwin — — 1877 England & Wales, Crime, Prisons & Punishment, 1770-1935 Great Britain
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Yvonne
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3 Dec 2018 18:55 |
Definite similarities but that 1891 census gives James as being born in Nottinghamshire but the 1871 census shows him born in Cheshire, so maybe your doubts about 1891 census are founded. It's strange too that Margaret Jane died back in Irvinestown.
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AustinQ
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3 Dec 2018 18:37 |
Not sure about that 1891 census- although it does seem to be them- unless James left Margaret? When Margaret dies in 1883 she's listed as a widow:
Death: Margaret Jane Brock 16th October 1883 Place: Irvinestown Age: 48 Status: Widow, Housekeeper Cause: Phthisis 2 years Informant: Ann Isabella Brock- daughter
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AustinQ
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3 Dec 2018 18:23 |
I think this is father James and son Sidney in 1891:
Name: James E Brock Gender: Male Age: 60 Relationship: Boarder Birth Year: 1831 Birth Place: Nottingham Civil Parish: Adderbury Residence Place: Adderbury, Adderbury, Oxfordshire, England Sub registration district: Bloxham ED, Institution or Vessel: 12 Piece: 1180 Folio: 120 Household Members: Name Age
Richard Hopcraft 56 Elizabeth Hopcraft 42 Mary J Hopcraft 13 James E Brock 60 Boarder, Widower, Ag Lab, Nottingham Sydney H Brock 20 Boarder, Ag Lab, Cumberton, Worcestershire ------------------------------
Possible death for Sidney: Name Sydney Herbert Brock Event Type Death Registration Quarter Oct-Nov-Dec Registration Year 1892 Registration District Banbury Event Place Banbury, Oxfordshire, England Age 21 Birth Year (Estimated) 1871 Volume 3A Page 501
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AustinQ
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3 Dec 2018 18:10 |
This is the family in 1871. Ancestry has gone mad with the transcription, but it's definitely them:
Name: Sidney Brock Age: 1 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1870 Relation: Son Father's name: James Buck Mother's name: Jane Buck Gender: Male Where born: Eckington, Worcestershire, England Civil Parish: Eckington Town: Eckington County/Island: Worcestershire Country: England Registration district: Pershore Sub-registration district: Eckington ED, institution, or vessel: 4 Household schedule number: 168 Piece: 3062 Folio: 57 Page Number: 31 Household Members: Name Age
James Buck 37 Game keeper, Cheshire Ollerton Jane Buck 34 Ireland Henrietta Buck 9 Ireland Bella Buck 5 Ireland James Buck 3 Ireland Sidney Brock 1 Worcestershire, Eckington Mary Brock 1 Month Worcestershire, Eckington
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