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More details on the Thomas Robinson / Ellen Whittaker marriage - gives ages and names Fathers (cert. would give Wiliam's occupation to pin down)

Ellen Whittaker
England, Lancashire, Parish Registers 1538-1910
Name Thomas Robinson
Event Type Marriage
Event Date 05 Aug 1871
Event Place St James' Church, Church Kirk, Lancashire, England
Gender Male
Age 19
Marital Status Single
Birth Year (Estimated) 1852
Father's Name William Robinson
Spouse's Name Ellen Whittaker
Spouse's Gender Female
Spouse's Age 19
Spouse's Marital Status Single
Spouse's Birth Year (Estimated) 1852
Spouse's Father's Name Peter Whittaker

?
Name Peter Whitaker
Residence Place Altham, Lancashire, England
Gender Male
Christening Date 11 Oct 1846
Christening Date (Original) 11OCT1846
Christening Place Altham, Lancashire, England
Birth Date 18 Sep 1846
Father's Name Peter Whitaker
Mother's Name Alice
born Padiham from another record on Family Search
---------------------
Name John Whitaker
Residence Place Altham, Lancashire, England
Gender Male
Christening Date 05 Feb 1843
Christening Date (Original) 05FEB1843
Christening Place Altham, Lancashire, England
Birth Date 31 Dec 1842
Father's Name Peter Whitaker
Mother's Name Alice

-----------------------------
Name Anne Whitaker
Gender Female
Christening Date 16 Jun 1850
Christening Date (Original) 16 JUN 1850
Christening Place Altham, Lancashire, England
Birth Date May 1850
Father's Name Peter Whitaker
Mother's Name Alice

Marriage: 9 Nov 1840 St James, Church Kirk, Lancashire, England
Peter Whittaker - (X), Full age, Collier, Bachelor, Huncote
Alice Pilkington - (X), Full age, Spinster, Huncote
Groom's Father: Richard Whittaker, Weaver
Bride's Father: James Pilkington, Tailor
Witness: G Fielding; John Lister
Married by Banns by: Joseph Birchall
Register: Marriages 1837 - 1847, Page 86, Entry 171
Source: LDS Film 1470823

Results:
Name: Mother's Maiden Surname: Order:
WHITAKER, PETER PILKINGTON Order
GRO Reference: 1846 D Quarter in THE BURNLEY UNION Volume 21 Page 247 Order
----------------------------------------

Name Peter Whittaker
Spouse's Name Alice Pilkington
Event Date 09 Nov 1840
Event Place Church,Lancashire,England

https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/Church_Kirk,_Lancashire_Genealogy

Chapelry History
Church Kirk (St James) was created a chapel of ease by 1600, taken from and lying within the boundaries of Whalley,union, and Lower division of the hundred, of Blackburn, N. division of the county of Lancaster, 4¾miles (E.) from Blackburn. This township, and the townships of Huncoat and Oswaldtwistle, form the parochial chapelry of Church Kirk.[1]

In 1851 Peter was a coal miner, and in 1871 just a labourer (unspecified).

The word transcribed as "vitrel" could be "nitrol" - something to do with nitroglycerin ???


EDIT:

Or "vitrol" - vitriol:

" The Origins of Vitrol
Sulphuric acid, which has the traditional name, “oil of vitriol.” It is a nasty, corrosive liquid, making “vitriolic” an apt term for virulent language. At first it may seem odd that the term “vitriol” derives from the Latin meaning glass, since glass is an inert material.. . . . . . "

https://tinyurl.com/y9fvhzxy


A Google search indicates that there were a number of vitriol works in Lancashire.

Peter Whittaker was a labourer in Vitrel making. Does anyone know what Vitrel maker is? According to the web Vitrelle is a tempered glass but only introduced about 1970. Maybe Vitrel was a forerunner. The nearest glass works to where he lived would be Pilkingtons at St. Helens.

Ellen and Thomas with their parents in 1861 (Patience's Granny Alice)

1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Iron Gate, Huncoat, Burnley, Lancashire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Peter Whitaker Head Married Male 48 1813 Labourer In Vitrel Making Huncoat, Lancashire, England
Alice Whitaker Wife Married Female 45 1816 House Keeper Huncoat, Lancashire, England
Peter Whitaker Son Unmarried Male 14 1847 Cotton Card Foulder Huncoat, Lancashire, England
Ellen Whitaker Daughter Unmarried Female 9 1852 Scholar Huncoat, Lancashire, England
Thomas Whitaker Son Unmarried Male 6 1855 Scholar Huncoat, Lancashire, England

Patience's parents were Thomas Robinson and Ellen Whittaker who married in 1871.

Ellen possibly died in 1874, so Patience is with her grandmother Alice Whittaker in 1881

Thomas Whittaker will be her uncle.

Her Father was Thomas Robinson

Birth cert of Patience will show parents and then

The marriage certificate of Thomas and Ellen would show Father's to confirm
Ellen was daughter of Peter and to give a clue as to who Thomas Robinson was

You beat me to it Maddie. I think she may have done as I’ve looked at the 1881 census and it says Patience born 1872 which is fine but above her is listed Thomas
Whittaker single born 1855. If this is her father why is he listed as single and where is her mother? I looked and found the same death as you so it must be a possibility. Also looked like Patience had a sister and when her mother and sister died she went to live with her father’s side of the family.
Thanks everyone for your help. You always do a good job.
Pat

ELLEN
Last name WHITTAKER
Marriage quarter 3
Marriage year 1871
Registration month -

MarriageFinder ™


ELLEN WHITTAKER married one of these people

Thomas Robinson, George Haworth
District Blackburn
District number -
County Lancashire
Country England
Volume 8E
Volume as transcribed 8E
Page number 499

1871
Record Transcription:
1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census

Town Gate, Huncoat, Burnley, Lancashire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Peter Whitaker Head - Male 57 1814 - Lancashire, England
Alice Whitaker Wife - Female 55 1816 - Lancashire, England
Ellen Whitaker Daughter - Female 19 1852 - Lancashire, England

ELLEN
Last name ROBINSON
Gender Female
Birth day -
Birth month -
Birth year 1852
Age 22
Death quarter 1
Death year 1874
District Burnley
County Lancashire
Volume 8E
Page 169

i wonder if ellen died in childbirth
ALICE
Last name ROBINSON
Birth year 1874
Birth quarter 1
Registration month -
Mother's maiden name Whittaker
District Burnley
County Lancashire
Country England
Volume 8E
Page 246

ALICE
Last name ROBINSON
Gender Female
Birth day -
Birth month -
Birth year 1873
Age 1
Death quarter 1
Death year 1874
District Burnley
County Lancashire
Volume 8E
Page 156

The birth in Huncoat area sounds possible as Burnley was well know for its mills as Preston was.
I’ll have a read at the information then look into it further.
Many thanks to you all.
Pat

https://www.freebmd.org.uk

Burnley RD covers the Huncoat area where census says she was born

Births Mar 1872 (>99%)
Robinson Patience Burnley 8e 244

and from GRO site giving mmn

Name: Mother's Maiden Surname: Order:
ROBINSON, PATIENCE WHITTAKER Order
GRO Reference: 1872 M Quarter in "THE BURNLEY UNION" Volume 08E Page 244

a maybe
Patience
Last name Robinson
Gender Female
Birth year 1869
Birth place -
Baptism year 1869
Baptism date 25 Jul 1869
Residence Dewsbury, York, England
Place Dewsbury
County Yorkshire
Country England
Father's first name(s) Thomas
Father's last name Robinson
Mother's first name(s) Elizabeth
Mother's last name Robinson
Record set England Births & Baptisms 1538-1975
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Parish Baptisms
Collections from England, Great Britain

Index (c) IRI. Used by permission of FamilySearch Intl

or
Patience Robinson
Registration Year
1872
Registration Quarter
Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration district
Burnley
Parishes for this Registration District
Burnley
Inferred County
Lancashire
Volume
8e
Page
244

Name: Patience Robinson
Age: 1
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1870
Relation: Daughter
Father's name: Thomas Robinson
Mother's name: Elizabeth Robinson
Gender: Female
Where born: Dewsbury
Civil Parish: Mirfield
Ecclesiastical parish: St Saviour
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Registration district: Dewsbury
Sub-registration district: Mirfield
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Household schedule number: 69
Piece: 4598
Folio: 76
Page Number: 17
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Robinson 36
Elizabeth Robinson 36
George H Robinson 15
Harriet A Robinson 9
Minnie Robinson 6
Walter Robinson 4
Patience Robinson 1

1881
Higher Gate, Huncoat, Burnley, Lancashire, England

Members that resided in the household at the time of the census.
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Alice Whitaker Head Widow Female 66 1815 Confectioner Huncoat, Lancashire, England
Thomas Whitaker Son Single Male 26 1855 - Huncoat, Lancashire, England
Patience Robinson Grand Daughter Single Female 9 1872 Scholar Huncoat, Lancashire, England
Patience Robinson's Census Details
Details taken from the original census record.

NOT the dewsbury one

Yes, right place for query as covers same family

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census
20, William Henry Street, Preston, Lancashire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
William Woan Head Married Male 26 1875 Mill Stoker Barrow in Furness, Lancashire, England
Patience Woan Wife Married Female 29 1872 - Huncoat, Lancashire, England
Nellie Woan Daughter Single Female 3 1898 - Preston, Lancashire, England
Margaret A Woan Daughter Single Female 0 1901 - Preston, Lancashire, England

Thanks greyghost. That worked and I found him.
Now I have another query and i wondered if I should put it here or start another thread but here goes.

I have a marriage certificate for his parents William and Patience. Shows that Patience was 25 when they married on the 17/04/1897 so I assumed that she was born in 1872 in Preston as people didn’t move about quite as much in those days but I can’t find her birth. The marriage certificate says her father was Thomas Robinson and his occupation was weaving master. She is listed as living in Maitland Street. Preston. William who she married was a weaver but Patience has a line through her occupation. Maybe she hadn’t an occupation. William at the time of their marriage lived in Fishwick Parade. Preston.
Pat

Try this link, seems to be working, make sure you highlight the correct years

https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/#wills

1939 register on FMP has the family as HOAN, so went the long way round to find the possible marriage.

If he died in Preston in 1973 that's the only one, so probate record looks correct

Probably is my William. I’ve clicked on the probate service but get a message that an error has occurred which has been logged and will be resolved as soon as possible so I will try later.
It isn’t helping that every generation has a father or son called William. Even brothers have called their sons William and no middle name with no thought given to the likes of us trying to solve our trees. Ha ha.
At least my son has two names and he’s not a William.

Thank you for your help.
Pat

Appears to have been William only from death record

All but 1 William Woan marriage from 1922 onwards are in Preston RD

1931 to Gertrude M Craven - 1939 register probably shows a William b1883 and a Gertrude b1895 in Preston

1931 to Dorothy V Dawson - not found 1939, but there was a Dorothy Victoria Dawson born 1907 Preston RD (and one 1911 Aston RD)

1941 to Hilda Kay - Hilda probably on 1939 register single b 1910

1949 - to Helen M Maxworthy in Hammersmith

1964 to a Sheila M Livesay (possibly born 1940 Preston?)

Would appear to be to Dorothy as this is same address as William's probate

Probate - WOAN Dorothy victoria of 30 Moor Ave Penwortham nr Preston died 28 February 1985 Probate Liverpool 26 April

a possible

Name: William Woan
Registration Date: Jul-Aug-Sep 1931
Registration district: Preston
Inferred County: Lancashire
Spouse: Dorothy V Dawson
Volume Number: 8e
Page Number: 1496

DOROTHY VICTORIA
Last name DAWSON
Birth year 1907
Birth quarter 1
Registration month -
Mother's maiden name Hill
District Preston
County Lancashire
Country England
Volume 8E
Page 581

DOROTHY VICTORIA
Last name WOAN
Gender Female
Birth day 11
Birth month 12
Birth year 1906
Age -
Death quarter 1
Death year 1985
District Preston & South Ribble
Register number 385
County Lancashire
Volume 40
Page 2401

1939
Name: William Woan
Gender: Male
Marital Status: Married
Birth Date: 23 Sep 1907
Residence Year: 1939
Address: 25.
Residence Place: Ilford, Essex, England
Occupation: Police Constable Warrant R R T Metropolitan Police
Schedule Number: 417
Sub Schedule Number: 1
Enumeration District: CCYB
Registration district: 191-2
Inferred Spouse: Dorothy V Woan
Inferred Children: Dorothy P Woan
Household Members:
Name
William Woan
Dorothy V Woan
Dorothy P Woan