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Dea, thank you so much, he does sound like a right bad 'un doesn't he? Hope he didn't take the fighting home. No wonder she would rather be thought a widow. Yes, why would you take someone like that back?

Looking at the newspapers, (only tiny snippits I am afraid which do not offer any confirmation that it is 'our man') the Arthur Kay who was a Carter in Bolton was seemingly always drunk, getting info fights and conning prople out of goods which he then sold so it is no wonder that she decided to 'call it a day' and set out with her children by herself.

To my mind, the wonder is that she took him back !!!

The incident in December 1848 mentioned above appears to be him 'acquiring' a saddle and breetchings from someone and selling them off.

Dea x

Thanks for that Dea. I misread the 1861 image. Wonder why she said she was a widow in 1851 though?

Thank you Erika. That marriage is a great find and does seem to confirm it is him. Ah, a criminal, I hadn't thought of that. If he was a serial offender that would explain his absence from the family home. Have you any idea how inmates would be listed on the census?

Thanks Malyon. I can't find that record. Does it give any further information please?

Looking at the census images it does say Widow on 1851 but the 1861 image actually shows her as 'married'.

Dea x

Suggestion only - not enough info to be able to make a positive ID.


Name: Arthur Kay
Age: 27
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1821
Date of Trial: 4 Dec 1848
Trial Year: 1848
Location of Trial: Lancashire, England
Sentence: Imprisonment
Crime: Fraud
Date of Execution or Release: 4 months' imprisonment

Name: John Kay
Gender: Male
Marriage Age: 19
Event Type: Marriage
Birth Year: abt 1848
Marriage Date: 29 Dec 1867
Marriage Place: Bootle, St Mary, Lancashire, England
Search Photos: Search for 'Bootle, St Mary' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
Father: Arthur Kay****************Carter
Spouse: Ellen Holliday

One of the witnesses was Alfred Kay

When he married, he was a Farmer. The man in the 1871 census is a Carter

Arthur Kay
Great Britain, War Office Registers, 1772-1935
Name: Arthur Kay
Event Type: Military Service
Event Date: 1849
Event Place: United Kingdom
Event Place: United Kingdom

Unable to find Arthur in the 1841 census, or any census for that matter until possibly 1871???

Baptism: 22 Mar 1819 Independent, Edgworth, Lancashire, England
Arthur Kay - [Child] of Ralph Kay & Lissey
Born: 20 Dec 1818
Abode: Entwistle
Register: Baptisms 1807 - 1837, Page 14
Source: LDS Film 560880

Arthur married Rachel Guest in 1843....
Marriage: 5 Nov 1843 St Peter, Bolton, Lancashire, England
Arthur Kay - (X), full, Farmer, Bachelor, Sharples
Rachel Guest - (X), full, Spinster, Sharples
Groom's Father: Ralph Kay, Farmer
Bride's Father: William Guest, Farmer
Witness: Richard Liptrot; James Liptrot
Married by Banns by: P A Galindo Curate
Register: Marriages 1843 - 1844, Page 13, Entry 26
Source: Film of the register at Manchester Library

They had four children. Elizabeth, Alfred, John & Mary between 1844 & 1849.

Rachel is recorded as a widow in 1851.....
Name: Rachael Kay
Age: 28
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1823
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Edgerton, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Little Bolton
Ecclesiastical parish: St George
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Bolton
Sub-registration district: Little Bolton
ED, institution, or vessel: 16
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 156
Piece: 2209
Folio: 462
Page Number: 41
Household Members:
Name Age
Rachael Kay 28
Elizabeth Kay 7
Alfred Kay 5
John Kay 4
Mary Kay 2

And again in 1861 she is on her own with the children and recorded as a widow.
Name: Rachel Kay
Age: 37
Estimated Birth Year: 1824
Gender: Female
Where born: Tockholes, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Sharples
Ecclesiastical parish: St Paul
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Bolton
Sub-registration district: Sharples
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 202
Piece: 2819
Folio: 63
Page Number: 35
Household Members:
Name Age
Rachel Kay 37
Elizabeth Kay 16
Alfred Kay 14
John Kay 13
Mary Kay 10

Then found this entry in 1871.
Name: Rachel Kay
Age: 46
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1825
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Arther Kay
Gender: Female
Where born: Hashley Bridge....Meant to be Astley Bridge in Bolton???
Civil Parish: Bootle
Ecclesiastical parish: St John
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: West Derby
Sub-registration district: Walton
ED, institution, or vessel: 6a
Household schedule number: 185
Piece: 3832
Folio: 130
Page Number: 50
Household Members:
Name Age
Arther Kay 49....Turton
Rachel Kay 46
Edward Ball 29....Lodger

There doesn't seem to be any other marriage for an Arthur Kay to Rachel, but if this is 'my' Arthur, where has he been and why would Rachel say she was a widow in 1851 & 1861?

Please can anyone help me with this?