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Thanks for that. Apologies if I have offended anyone by my lack of knowledge as to how the 'system' works.

Connected

https://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/living_relatives/thread/1374109

That's the original and only one other than present one

There's this one from 2017

https://www.genesreunited.co.za/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1367575

Are there any others??

It may not include the info you are specifically looking for today, but other relevant information to help try and find an answer for you is contained there. It would have been good to get a referral to ANY thread concerning the same family to save us time repeating information already found.

No I haven't deleted the other info. As far as I am aware it should still be there but it doesn't contain any relevant information as to who Frederick married after Caroline's death.

Have you deleted your other thread about these people?

It was certainly on here yesterday, with a considerable amount of input from members, including all the info which has been posted on this one.

Don't know for certain but talks with family believe they came when Ena was about 8 years old and Roland remembered walking to school. So roughly 1926 or maybe upto 1927/8. Was definitely after their mum died in 1925. As far as we know whilst Frederick was alive they definitely lived in the Langworth/Wragby area - no-one can remember anywhere else being mentioned. My husband and three of his brothers were all born in Langworth in the 1940s. Harry Carter was a soldier born in Huddersfield we don't know where they met. My husband's father was Ena's second husband.

Yes it's Roland. Long story but Winifred apparently had a long history of name changing !! Research confirms her as being Caroline Smart father John mother Caroline born in Northants. On Ena's birth cert - in Essex - she's Winifred Caroline Smart - on a court order for maintenance for Ena from a soldier with the surname Graham she's Caroline Priscilla and then her marriage to Frederick Smith she's given her surname as Grant - a widow - no records found of a marriage to Grant. Roland's birth certificate in 1921 is Caroline Smith. Phew !!!!!

Re Roland's mms being Smart, not Grant -

is this Ena's birth ?

Births Dec 1917 (>99%)
Smart Ena F Smart Tendring 4a 1009


I don't see any Winfred Smart / Grant marriage 1917-18. Had she taken the name of another partner?

Do you have any idea when he moved to Lincolnshire and did he always live in the same place there.

Ena's marriage - initial definitely an F on original. Was hoping the marriage was earlier to give some clue as to how long family had been in the area. Harry could have been local and so could presume they'd been there a while, but might have known her from the Lichfield area.

Surname First name(s) Spouse District Vol Page
Marriages Sep 1939 (>99%)
Carter Harry Smith Welton 7a 2076
Dowman Gladys Mellor Welton 7a 2076
Mellor Wilfred Dowman Welton 7a 2076
Smith Ena F Carter Welton 7a 2076

Just looked at Frederick's death cert. No mention of him being a widower - no column for marital status - just states male. Ena was named as the informant present at death.

Not relevant to the query (unless Fred and Winifred had split up and he had another partner) , but -

The only Roland Smith born Lichfield 1921 has mms Smart:

Births Dec 1921 (>99%)
Smith Roland F Smart Lichfield 6b 892


I don't see any Smith / Grant births in Lichfield 1918-25.

Regarding remarriage - Ena's daughter remembers her referring to a stepmother who treated her and her brother badly. We assumed he would have married someone else but maybe not !!! We know that Ena married her first husband - Carter - in1939 a soldier -and from 1939 Register that Ena and Fred were living together. No mention of anyone else living there - hence assumption stepmother had died.

Also found what was thought to be a possible marriage - 1926 Tamworth Frederick to Violet M Perry plus a death for a Violet M Smith 1938 Cleethorpes Lincs - sent for marriage certificate but not them - too young

Have you reason to believe that he did in fact remarry?
Does his death cert mention a widow? Or do you think she (if she existed) would have died before him?

By the way - I had brilliant help on here last year - looking for who Winifred Caroline Smart was - Ena's mother. It was satisfactorily concluded thanks to great research undertaken by members.

Yes that's them. Ena was the informant on Fred's death certificate. Ena was the illegitimate daughter of Fred's first wife - her father killed in 1918 in ww11 - her mother was known as several different surnames and Christian variations names !!!! - Ena mentioned to my husband's sister that she lived with him, her stepmother and her 'brother' Roland b1921/Lichfield in Langworth after they'd moved from Tamworth/Lichfield. Struggling to find who - if he did - marry.after Winifred/Caroline's death in 1925 Birmingham

Is this his death?
England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007

First name(s) FREDERICK
Last name SMITH
Gender Male
Birth day -
Birth month -
Birth year 1870
Age 74
Death quarter 4
Death year 1944
District Welton
County Lincolnshire
Volume 7A
Page 576

Welton RD formed 1938 from Lincoln RD

Is there another thread about this family?

1939 Register - they appear to be at Longworth looking at original

For an idea of Frederick's age -

Smith Household (2 People)
, Welton R.D., Lincolnshire (Parts of Lindsey), England

FIRST NAME(S) LAST NAME(S) DOB SEX OCCUPATION MARITAL STATUS SCHEDULE SCHEDULE SUB NUMBER
Fred Smith 24 May 1870 Male Road Labourer Widowed 77 1
Ena Carter 28 Sep 1918 Female House Keeper Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 77 2

Hi am looking for a re-marriage of Frederick Smith in Birmingham area around 1926. Was previously married in 1918 to Winifred Caroline Grant. Following Winifred's death in 1925 we believe he remarried and moved from the Lichfield area to Lincolnshire. He would have brought with him his son Roland b.1921 and his step-daughter Ena Frances b. 1917. We know Ena - then married and named Carter - was living with Frederick in Welton district Lincolnshire in 1939 - 1939 Register info. What we need to find is who he may have been remarried to and when that person died. Any ideas please ? You were a great help when researching Smart/Smith family.