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I wonder if anyone could help me find a baptism/parents for William Guest born circa 1793 Tockholes/Livesey, Lancashire, please?

Have contacted Lancashire Online Parish Clerks and all available parish records for the area have been transcribed and are on their site. Strangely there are only 10 baptisms noted at Tockholes Independant Chapel between 1778 & 1799.

William married Mary Melody in 1816.......
Marriage: 22 Jan 1816 St. Mary the Virgin, Blackburn.
William Guest - weaver bachelor of Blackburn
Mary Melody - spinster of Blackburn
Witness: John Guest; Wm Maudsley
Married by banns by R Dobson
Register: Marriages 1815-1817, page88, entry264
Source LDS film 1278807

And I think this is his brother's marriage to Mary's sister in 1818.......
Marriage: 22 June 1818 St. Mary the Virgin, Blackburn.
John Guest - weaver bachelor of Blackburn
Rachael Mallady (x)- spinster of Blackburn
Witness: Jas Radcliffe; Wm Maudsley
Married by banns by: R Dobson
Register: Marriages 1817-1819, page 83, entry 248
Source: LDS film 1278807

They may both have married in Tockholes but been added to the main area register in Blackburn.

All but one of the children of both 'brothers' were baptised at Tockholes Independant Chapel between 1816 & 1841.

I have everything on William from then onwards, including all census, birth, death and marriage info, so don't want to waste anyone's time looking for these, just trying to find his ancestors thank you.


1851 & 1861 census for info.......

Name: William Wiest
[William Guest]
Age: 55
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1796
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary Wiest
Gender: Male
Where born: Tockholes, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Little Bolton
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Bolton
Sub-registration district: Tong
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 20
Piece: 2208
Folio: 580
Page Number: 7
Household Members:
Name Age
William Wiest 55
Mary Wiest 55
George Wiest 19
Paul Wiest 17
Gard Wiest 10
Gust Guest

Name: William Guest
Age: 68
Estimated Birth Year: 1793
Relation: Head
Gender: Male
Where born: Livesey, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Rivington
Ecclesiastical parish: Rivington
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Chorley
Sub-registration district: Rivington
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 86
Piece: 3118
Folio: 23
Page Number: 24
Household Members:
Name Age
William Guest 68
Grace Guest 21

And William's burial .....
Burial: 9 May 1868 Tockholes Independent Chapels, Tockholes, Lancs.
William Guest -
Died: 5 May
Age: 76 years
Notes: Grave full
Grave Position: 55 feet 7 inches from Chapel wall
Rank: 2
Performed at: The Independent Chapel
Register: Burials 1865 - 1876, Page 5, Entry 3
Source: Original registers

Apart from his wife, Mary, I have no idea who else is in the grave.

????

Record Transcription:
England Births & Baptisms 1538-1975
What can I do with this record?
Attach this record as a source to a person on your tree. Also update people and relatives with details from this record
First name(s) William
Last name G.T
Gender Male
Birth year -
Birth place -
Baptism year 1796
Baptism date 12 Oct 1796
Residence Blackburn, Lancashire, England
Place Blackburn
County Lancashire
Country England
Father's first name(s) John
Father's last name G.T
Mother's first name(s) Mary
Mother's last name -
Record set England Births & Baptisms 1538-1975
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Parish Baptisms
Collections from England, Great Britain

will take a guess ,as both William & John called there first born son's Thos
that is quite likely there fathers name.

Thank you Abby. I hadn't seen that one....have to see if I can find the image.

I did wonder that too Elizabeth. They both named a daughter Ellen, but can't see any possible baptisms or a marriage.

The image is on Family search and is VERY unclear.

Dea x

EDIT - I believe this is the transcription for it on Lancs OPC and it looks to be an extremely good guess (I think the name could be Garrott or Gabbott but it doesn't look good for being 'Guest' ? ) :


Baptism: 12 Oct 1796 St Mary the Virgin, Blackburn, Lancashire, England
William Gabbott - Son of John Gabbott & Mary
Born: 21 Sep 1796
Abode: Houghton
Register: Baptisms 1792 - 1812, Page 73, Entry 23
Source: LDS Film 1278804

Dea x

Thank you Dea.

You are welcome Christina.

I would be happier if you would also take a look and see what you think as the writing is VERY unclear and it was an excellent suggestion by safc so it would be very wrong to dismiss it if I have looked at the incorrect image and transcription.

Dea x

Yes it is very unclear Dea. Does look like Gabbott/Gabbett...but could be anything. Definitely begins with a G and looks like 7 letters in the name. Abode could be Haighton/Haighdon or Houghton. Very difficult to read and certainly an excellent find by Abby.

Well,

IF the John you mentioned 'was' his brother (and I am not sure of this yet ?)
then this would be John in 1841:


Results:
Name: Mother's Maiden Surname: Order:
GUEST, SIMEON AINSWORTH MELODY Order
GRO Reference: 1841 M Quarter in CHORLEY Volume 21 Page 332




1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Holes, Leyland, Chorley, Lancashire, England
Members that resided in the household at the time of the census.
First name(s) Last name Sex Age Birth year Birth place
John Guest Male 45 1796 Lancashire, England - Farmer
Rachel Guest Female 44 1797 Lancashire, England
Ellen Guest Female 13 1828 Lancashire, England
James Guest Male 11 1830 Lancashire, England
Jane Guest Female 8 1833 Lancashire, England
Rachel Guest Female 5 1836 Lancashire, England
Simeon Guest Male 0 1841 Lancashire, England


His son Simeon had an unusual middle name:


Results:
Name: Mother's Maiden Surname: Order:
GUEST, SIMEON AINSWORTH MELODY Order
GRO Reference: 1841 M Quarter in CHORLEY Volume 21 Page 332


1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Holes, Leyland, Chorley, Lancashire, England
Members that resided in the household at the time of the census.
First name(s) Last name Sex Age Birth year Birth place
John Guest Male 45 1796 Lancashire, England - Farmer
Rachel Guest Female 44 1797 Lancashire, England
Ellen Guest Female 13 1828 Lancashire, England
James Guest Male 11 1830 Lancashire, England
Jane Guest Female 8 1833 Lancashire, England
Rachel Guest Female 5 1836 Lancashire, England
Simeon Guest Male 0 1841 Lancashire, England


So, I looked for a Mr. Guest marrying an Ainsworth and perhaps folling this through as a family name (as often happened). I found this:


Banns: St Mary the Virgin, Blackburn, Lancashire, England
Thomas Guest - Pleasington
Ellin Ainsworth - Tockholes
Banns Read: 7 Feb 1773, 2nd: 14 Feb 1773, 3rd: 21 Feb 1773
Register: Banns of Marriage 1769 - 1774, Page 106, Entry 532
Source: LDS Film 1278806

Marriage: 22 Feb 1773 St Mary the Virgin, Blackburn, Lancashire, England
Thomas Guest - Weaver, Parish of Blackburn
Ellin Ainsworth - Spinster, Parish of Blackburn
Witness: John Nevill; Peter Nevill
Married by Banns by: Wm Hodgson Curate
Register: Marriages 1769 - 1774, Page 174, Entry 519
Source: LDS Film 1278806

It looks like their parents 'could' have been a 'Thomas + Ellin' as you had suspected?

Needs further research to confirm though as it looks like there might be another generation inbetween ???

Dea x

Thanks Dea. That marriage does look promising, but seems a little early. Unless William & John were the last of a very large family.

Or, as you suggest, there is another generation in between. Marriages for possible siblings of William & John (Thomas, Ellen, George & Hannah) between 1811 & 1819 would support that theory. Unfortunately they are all too early to name a father.

No proof, but I am fairly certain that William & John are 2 brothers who married 2 sisters. They gave the same name to five of their children......

Thomas
Ellen
Rachel
John
Jane/Janet

William's pob is Tockholes in 1851 & Livesey in 1861. John's is Livesey in 1851 (he died before the 1861 census).

Both are buried at Tockholes Independant Chapel.

Their wives Mary (William) & Rachel (John) were born in Shuttleworth. Mary & Rachel's parents, Thomas & Rachel Melody, are buried at St Stephen, Tockholes.

There is this baptism (with different parents to already found):-

First name(s) William
Last name Guest
Gender Male
Birth year -
Birth place -
Baptism year 1793
Baptism date 04 Aug 1793
Residence West Houghton, Lancashire, England
Place Westhoughton
County Lancashire
Country England
Father's first name(s) Richard
Father's last name Guest
Mother's first name(s) Ann
Mother's last name -
Record set England Births & Baptisms 1538-1975
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Parish Baptisms
Collections from England, Great Britain


and a possible brother:-

First name(s) John
Last name Guest
Gender Male
Birth year -
Birth place -
Baptism year 1795
Baptism date 30 Jun 1795
Residence West Houghton, Lancashire, England
Place Westhoughton
County Lancashire
Country England
Father's first name(s) Richard
Father's last name Guest
Mother's first name(s) Ann
Mother's last name Guest
Record set England Births & Baptisms 1538-1975

Westhoughton is in the same registration district as Little Bolton (although I know at the time of the births there were no registration districts).

Kath. x

Thank you Kath. I suppose they could have moved to Tockholes as children? William did move to Bolton later in life. With a bit of luck Richard & Ann may be on the 1841 census.

Burial: 28 Mar 1801 St Bartholomew, Westhoughton, Lancashire, England
Ann Guest - Wife of Richard Guest
Register: Burials 1793 - 1812, Page 28
Source: LDS Film 2113219

Burial: 28 Apr 1838 St Bartholomew, Westhoughton, Lancashire, England
Richard Guest -
Age: 71 years
Abode: Westhoughton
Buried by: Chr. Bateson
Register: Burials 1813 - 1839, Page 279, Entry 2229
Source: LDS Film 2113219

Maddie,thanks for finding the burials of Richard & Ann. Looks like they stayed in the Westhoughton area then, so probably not the parents of my William & John. At least that eliminates them and helps to narrow the search.

Banns are missing from 1779 - 1868 in Blackburn which is unfortunate as it would have given residences of possible siblings of William & John. Just going off the names of their children there are these marriages.....

Marriage: 3 Sep 1811 St Mary the Virgin, Blackburn, Lancashire, England
Thomas Guest - servant, bachelor, the parish of Blackburn
Ellen Wilkinson - spinster, the same parish
Register: Marriages 1810 - 1812, Page 120, Entry 164
Source: LDS Film 1278807

Marriage: 25 Dec 1811 St Mary the Virgin, Blackburn, Lancashire, England
Henry Vickers - (X), weaver, bachelor, the parochial chapelry of Samlesbury
Hannah Guest - (X), spinster, the parish of Blackburn
Register: Marriages 1810 - 1812, Page 141, Entry 246
Source: LDS Film 1278807

Marriage: 19 May 1812 St Mary the Virgin, Blackburn, Lancashire, England
Thomas Rainforth - tailor, bachelor, the parish of Blackburn
Ellen Guest - (X), spinster, the same parish
Register: Marriages 1810 - 1812, Page 167, Entry 95
Source: LDS Film 1278807

Marriage: 25 Jul 1819 St Mary the Virgin, Blackburn, Lancashire, England
George Guest - Butler, Bachelor, Blackburn
Isabella Proctor - Spinster, Blackburn
Witness: Ellen Guest; Thos. Astley
Married by Licence by: R. Dobson
Register: Marriages 1819 - 1821, Page 35, Entry 105
Source: LDS Film 1278807

But again no baptisms.

Possible burial for the Thomas who married Ellen as posted by Dea above....
Burial: 18 Nov 1830 St Mary the Virgin, Blackburn, Lancashire, England
Thomas Guest -
Age: 73 years
Abode: Blackburn
Buried by: J. Porter
Register: Burials 1827 - 1832, Page 205, Entry 1635
Source: LDS Film 1278820 PR 3073/1/84

Although I can't find anything for Ellen.

The marriage posted for Thomas Guest To Ellen Ainsworth would fit perfectly if it wasn't so early, so Dea's suggestion of another generation in between sounds more plausible.

My eyes are on stalks trying to find what isn't there, or am I missing the obvious?

Thank you to everyone who has posted, or searched for me. Your help is much appreciated.