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I've just ordered the birth certificate for John to make sure I have the actual birth date and not just the year - order PDF so should have it in a week.

Yes it could be a coincidence so maybe I should start there and get that birth certificate. The fact that two families connected to John, as I mentioned, and were not aware of each other until a few years ago, both have recollections of it being mentioned he went to S. Africa make me pretty sure he did. He's definitely a mystery.

So you don't think that the birth date given in 1939 is more than just coincidence?

There is no online record of his travelling to SA - not that it means he didn't go.

You have be open-minded about FH - people told fibs

Which marriage cert are you referring to now?

I can't see how this family can be my John's family - there is no Nancy or Williams in his family as far as I know. There has never, to my knowledge, been any talk of Sheffield. Maybe I should get the marriage certificate for this John and see who his father is. My John was born in Liverpool and lived in Liverpool until at least the 1911 census. I can't find him in the 1939 Register. There have been different spellings of the name - Speers, Speirs and Spiers and I've tried all of them but can't find him in the 1939 Register - I'm thinking that he must've gone to S. Africa before then.

'Straws' are all we have.............lol!

The lady to whom you referred, lancashireann

Births Mar 1901 (>99%)
Williams Nancy Lena G Cricklade 5a 51

Name: Nancy Lena G Williams
Death Age: 94
Birth Date: 28 Nov 1900
Registration Date: Apr 1995
Registration district: Swindon
Inferred County: Wiltshire
Register Number: C44B
District and Subdistrict: 7961C

I wonder if it is an enumerator error on that 1939 record. Translating one person who said Speirs and the other Williams both stating married so he put the 2 together.

There is a Nancy Williams in the death registers with birth date of 28/11/1900. There are 2 but the Nancy Lena Gladys never married

clutching at straws here

Name: Thomas Speirs
Death Date: 2 May 1938
Death Place: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Probate Date: 2 Jun 1938
Registry: Liverpool, England

Admin to Thomas James Speirs, Bus driver
£221 17s 10d

Depending on when the Will was written, it may refer to John and his location

I can find no other record of ANY of the people with John Speirs-Williams on 1939 register

Looking at the image, Nancy's birth year as transcribed is a pencilled-in amendment, changing it from 1900

Re Mary’s last posting. I don’t think WW1 would have any relevance, as he was only 17 when it ended.

Sorry Ann, you've got me there. How would that help?

I wonder if you got a copy of Father Thomas’s will it would throw any light on it.

I should also add that both of John's parents died prior to 1939 - Margaret Catherine in 1913 and Thomas in 1938.

Okay, this is getting very complicated. What do I know exactly?
John Speirs was born in 1900 to parents Thomas Speirs and Margaret Catherine Brock. John had 7 siblings - 3 brothers and 4 sisters.

He was my granddad's brother. In 1901 census he was shown as 3 mths old living at 55 Boaler Street, W. Derby, Liverpool - this is definitely the correct family.

John's older siblings were born at 2 Derby Grove so he could've been born either at Derby Grove or Boaler Street. I guess I'd have to get the birth certificate to check.

As to him going to S. Africa this is all I know. A nephew remembers his mother talking about 'our Jack' who went to S. Africa. A granddaughter of one of the sisters also remembers talk of him going to S. Africa. That is all that is known.

Hope this helps.

Beats me Dea,could he have been a deserter from WW1 and changed his name slightly??


Maryb.

It looks like a very strange coincidence but this John has the same date of birth as 'your' John and a VERY similar name !!!

I cannot find a connection but also I cannot trace these people back to discount them.

Can anyone else see where they have come from?

1939 Register:
Spiers-Williams Household (4 People) 43 Sheldon Road , Sheffield C.B., Yorkshire (West Riding), England

First name(s) Last name(s) DOB Occupation
John Spiers-Williams 13 Dec 1900 Costing Clerk
Nancy Spiers-Williams 28 Nov 1898 Unpaid Domestic Duties
Jack Williams 29 May 1913 Snow Grinder
Dorothy Pritchard 09 Feb 1855 Incapacitated

Dea x


OOOhhh - apologies Maryb - it seems that you already posted this one on previous page - I obviously missed it but the fact remains that it is still a puzzle and I would at least like to trace something about these psople either before or after 1939. They are very elusive???

Dea x

do you know if your John had any children?

Name: Thomas Speir
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec, 1888
Registration district: Irvinestown, Ireland

Name
Margaret Catherine Brock
Thomas Speir

How is John connected to the rest of your family please - where does he fit in please asnd what makes you think that he went to South Africa? - Is he supposed to have stayed there or did he return?

Do you know anything else about him for certain?

Dea x

Malyon, that Margaret Catherine is not my ancestor - she would've been Speirs when she died and I know for sure she is buried in W. Derby Cemetery, Liverpool. The death shown by ErikaH is the correct one.

I've also looked on Ancestry for the migration but no luck.

Thanks.

Name: Sydney H Speirs
Death Age: 61
Birth Date: abt 1898
Registration Date: Mar 1959
Registration district: Ashton
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 10b
Page: 172

THIS is the mother's death

Deaths Sep 1913 (>99%)
Speirs Margaret C 39 W Derby 8b 671