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I think you said earlier in the thread uncle Arthur registered Elizabeth's death, where he stated she was widow of Frederick William. Are you sure he also registered Fred's death I don't think you mentioned this (may have missed it though)?

There was no second initial/name on Frederick's death registration

Thanks for the latest info I really think that what AustinQ has found feels so right and can't wait to mention these names and places to mum tomorrow.
In answer to the other questions, Fred's death was registered by my uncle Arthur and as I said before pretty sure he just came up with name Frederick William Ricketts because that was the name of Fred's first son and convinced that the year of birth was made up too ( my mum doesn't know when he was born)
Arthur Stickler was a lodger and father of my uncle Arthur Ricketts, seems Fred, wife Elizabeth and Arthur all continued to live together for many years! and it was no secret who Arthur's father was. Looked again at the birth certs for my mum and Rosina and the informant was Elizabeth for both. Thanks everyone and hopefully found some answers.

Adding to AustinQ's post (well found by the way, as neither used a second initial), it could be useful to know who registered his death, and what relationship/qualification they had to do so, addresses for both him and the informant may also be useful.

On the ER the new address for Elizabeth from 1962 was 11 Dunstan House, Denne Terrace, which shows only Elizabeth & Arthur Strickler.

Arthur had been with her (and Frederick) until 1949 at 39 Scrutton Street, and onwards at the same address with Elizabeth (no FredericK) from 1952.

What address info was given on Elizabeth's death registration?

Can I just ask about the 1972 death certificate you have for Frederick. Who registered his death?

Did Frederick and Elizabeth split up? It's just that Frederick and Elizabeth appear on the electoral registers in Scrutton Street together up until 1949, but in 1952 onwards Elizabeth appears there without Frederick.

It then looks like she moves early 60s with Arthur Stickler to a different address.

EDIT: Providing Frederick was still living in the area there's a possible that turns up in 47 Buttesland Street in 1953 (he's still there until at least 1964- possibly later):

1953 electoral register
47 Buttesland Street, Shoreditch- Hoxton Ward
Emily J Bryant
John William Bryant
Edward Goodwin
William McLarin
Frederick Ricketts

This is extremely frustrating- I've followed a few Ricketts living in Cricklewood but can't see any connection yet. Don't suppose your mother can remember any street names, or what years she knew they were living there?

Perhaps his name was just Frederick- possibly nicknamed Alfred. I don't think there is any initial on his marriage, on the 1939 register, on the electoral register, or on his death certificate. Who registered the births of his children?

This is not helpful but just wanted to mention my Grandfather was always known as Bert, but his name on his marriage and death was Alfred James. I had difficulty finding his birth certificate, luckily I knew his place and date of birth- turns out his name was James Edward Alfred, and he strangely had a brother called Bertie!
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Bearing in mind my Grandfather and his alteration of names you might want look into this child - his father Albert is listed as a painter in several documents (apologies if it's already been posted and disregarded):

Birth:
RICKETTS, HENRY ALFRED (mother's maiden name: SALTER)
GRO Reference: 1907 J Quarter in ST. PANCRAS Volume 01B Page 64

(I don't see any other records for a Henry Alfred Ricketts after the 1911 census- unless I'm missing it)

1911:

Street address: 28 Sidney Street, St Pancras
Name Age
Albert Ricketts Head 34 Building Trade Brompton
Henrietta Ricketts Wife 32 Westminster
Henrietta Ellen Ricketts daughter 11 St Pancras
Nelly Elizabeth Ricketts daughter 9 St Pancras
Ivy Lydia Ricketts daughter 7 St Pancras
Henry Alfred Ricketts son 4 St Pancras
--------------------------------

Baptism of later child:
Name: Albert William Ricketts
Baptism Age: 0
Record Type: Baptism
Birth Date: 13 Jun 1915
Baptism Date: 28 1915
Baptism Place: Saint Pancras Parish Church, Camden, England
Father: Albert Ricketts -HOUSE PAINTER
Mother: Henrietta Ricketts
Abode: 25 Drummond Crescent
---------------------------------

Marriage of Nelly Elizabeth:

Name: Nellie Elizabeth Ricketts
Residence: 257 Hampton Road
Marriage Age: 27
Record Type: Marriage
Birth Date: abt 1902
Marriage Date: 25 Dec 1929
Marriage Place: St Matthew, St Pancras, Camden, England
Father: Albert Ricketts- PAINTER
Spouse: Sidney James Fowler

Nellie & Sidney had one son born in 1934

Nellie and Sidney lived in WIllesden at 79 Villiers Road from at least 1946- 1954 (not too far from Cricklewood)

They were also in Willesden in 1938/ 1939 at 37 Warren Road- this is listed under Cricklewood Ward:

1939 register:
Address: 37 Warren Road
Residence Place: Willesden, Middlesex, England

Sidney J Fowler 15th November 1903 married Home & Export Packer ?
Nellie E Fowler 30th December 1901 married Unpaid domestic duties
------------------------------

Nellie's brother Albert William (born 1915) died in Sarawak in 1945- his probate lists his address as Villiers Road, Cricklewood:

Index of Wills and Administrations 1946:
RICKETTS Albert William of 79 Villiers Road, Cricklewood London W2. died 4th August 1945 in Sarawak Administration London 15 June to Albert Ricketts Builders labourer

It's worth pointing out that his DOB on his military documents did not exactly match his DOB on his baptism entry- but definitely the same man.
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Albert's wife Henrietta died in 1922 and Albert remarried in 1923 to Alice Elizabeth Cook. I think wife, Alice Elizabeth, died in 1930. From at least 1915- 1932 Albert lived at 26 Drummond Crescent, St Pancras.

I'm going a bit bog eyed with Ricketts- I might take another look at this later

EDIT: Can't really add much- But it seems to fit the little information you have- Father Albert - Occupation painter, relatives living in Cricklewood.

I wondered if the names Nellie & Sidney rang a bell or the Willesden addresses: 79 Villiers Road or 37 Warren Road? After 1954 Nellie moved to Byron Road, Harrow. She died in 1993 Slough Buckinghamshire.

You could always try something like AncestryDNA. Perhaps you could figure out his ancestry based on the DNA matches.

Rose

Dea and AG

My remark about missing the point was directed at Nicola - I know the searchers on here will have considered all possibilities

I've done that too, as previously mentioned - but no luck .

I've assumed his birth was 1905-10, in London, and that any subsequent marriage for his mother to an Al* Ricketts (or spelling variation) would also be in London - but of course any of those could be a wrong assumption.

Erika - you are very probably correct but I have looked at LOTS of Frederick (Alfreds' and Williams') born between 1905 and 1910 and then later marriages of their mothers to a Ricketts and I have been unable to link anything up (not surprisingly !!).

That is not to say that this did not happen but just that it is going to be impossible to find without more info.

Dea x

You seem to be missing the point I have tried to make about his birth name.

He could have been born to someone who later married a Ricketts, at which time his surname could have changed

Any idea of any sisters names ???

I am convinced that he was Frederick Alfred Ricketts as stated on my mum and her sisters birth certs and the more I look at his marriage cert, his father could be Alfred and not Albert. I can't believe that he would choose Ricketts as a surname, unless it was close to his original name. If anyone would care to look at the certs I have, I may have missed something. I have resorted to studying the few photo's I have of him to see if he looks older than he said ( really clutching at straws). Will question mum again on Sunday but so far she thinks Alfred is right, he had sisters and his family was from Cricklewood, North London. Thanks everyone

Only thing is Dea......

????!?

First name(s) Frederick W
Last name Ricketts
Gender Male
Birth day -
Birth month -
Birth year 1895
Age 24
Death quarter 3
Death year 1919
District Pancras
County London
Volume 1B
Page 12
Country England
Record set England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Civil Deaths & Burials
Collections from Great Britain, England

Still available on Amazon! And possibly elsewhere, for all I know.

https://tinyurl.com/y8kp92pz

who remembers "Reckitt's Blue " my mother always used it -- made whites look

even whiter


Mavis

It's as good a guess as any, Dea!

I find it hard to believe that anyone choosing to change their surname would pick Ricketts . ( No offence to anyone named Ricketts!)

So either he was born Ricketts, or he was adopted and given the name.

But he may well have lied about his age.

Well, in the absence of anything else which makes sense, I am convinced that he lied about his age (and his father's name) on his marriage and he is this one:

1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
3 Hethersett Street Ferdinand Street N W, St Pancras, London & Middlesex, England

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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Birth place Occupation
Frederick Ricketts Head Married Male 42 1869 Bedfordshire Leighstone Timber Porter
Transcription
Lucy Ricketts Wife Married Female 44 1867 London St Pancras -
Transcription
***Frederick Ricketts Son Single Male 16 1895 London St Pancras Van Guard
Transcription
Florence Ricketts Daughter Single Female 13 1898 London St Pancras School
Transcription
George Ricketts Son Single Male 10 1901 London St Pancras School
Transcription
Elizabeth Martin Niece Single Female 19 1892 London St Pancras Dressmaker





1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
45, Ferdinand Place, St Pancras, London & Middlesex, England

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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Birth place Occupation
Frederick Ricketts Head Married Male 32 1869 Leighton Buzzard, Bedfordshire, England Timber Carman
Transcription
Kate Ricketts Wife Married Female 27 1874 St Pancras, Middlesex, England -
Transcription
Frederick W Ricketts Son - Male 6 1895 St Pancras, Middlesex, England -
Transcription
Florence Ricketts Daughter - Female 3 1898 St Pancras, Middlesex, England -
Transcription
George Ricketts Son - Male 0 1901 St Pancras, Middlesex, England -



RICKETTS, FREDERICK WILLIAM MARCHANT Order
GRO Reference: 1894 D Quarter in PANCRAS Volume 01B Page 185



Results:
Name: Mother's Maiden Surname: Order:
RICKETTS, GEORGE EDWARD MARCHANT Order
GRO Reference: 1901 M Quarter in PANCRAS Volume 01B Page 23 Order
RICKETTS, JOHN HENRY MARCHANT Order
GRO Reference: 1903 J Quarter in ST. PANCRAS Volume 01B Page 11 Order


RICKETTS, FLORENCE DOROTHY MARCHANT Order
GRO Reference: 1897 D Quarter in PANCRAS Volume 01B Page 179 Order
RICKETTS, KATE MARCHANT Order
GRO Reference: 1896 S Quarter in PANCRAS Volume 01B Page 150


Marriages Sep 1892 (>99%)
HILLSDON Mary Hannah Pancras 1b 321 Scan available - click to view
**Marchant Martha Kate Pancras 1b 321 Scan available - click to view
Paine Charles William Pancras 1b 321 Scan available - click to view
**Ricketts Frederick Pancras 1b 321 Scan available - click to view


Deaths Jun 1904 (>99%)
RICKETTS Kate 30 Pancras 1b 10

This is probably absolute rubbish but I can't seem to let it go - what does anyone else think?

Dea x

Thank you for confirming that there is no Frederick Ricketts with any variation born at that time, I don't know where to go from here, will speak to uncle Arthur and mum again but he doesn't seem to exist before his marriage in 1930.

We've already looked for such a birth, and only one was found - posted by safc and disproved by Mavis, on page 1.

Perhaps Arthur, not knowing his father's full details, just assumed his birth surname was Ricketts, as that's what he'd always known him to be.

He may have been adopted, and his whole name changed - or he may have just changed it himself, for some reason.

I've tried to look into the possibility that he was born illegitimately, and his mother then married a Ricketts, but can't see any feasible Ricketts marriage to a woman with the birth surname of any Frederick William or Frederick Alfred born 1906-09. To cut down the numbers, I assumed he was born in London - but of course he could have been born anywhere.

I think IancashireAnn last post has found the answer. Frederick William Ricketts only appears on his wife's death in 1976, Fred died in 1972. It says widow of Frederick William Ricketts, informant was my uncle, Arthur born in 1945, he didn't know his father's middle name and just went with the name of first son born Frederick William Ricketts in 1936 possible made up date of birth and place too?? Will have to speak to him tomorrow but this makes perfect sense, I am looked for a Frederick Alfred Ricketts born between 1906 and 1909. Thank you