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The birth for Helen Netherley McAlpine born 1919 is also listed under McMeechan.

She must have been an illegitimate daughter of the Helen who married Robert .


I'm relieved I'm not the only one making silly mistakes, GG!

Tell me about it AG !

A tree on Ancestry has Helen Netherley McAlpine (1890-1950) marrying Robert Downie McMeechan (1886-1916 Died WW1) in 1908.

Children shown as Joan Nicholson Kerr McMeechan 1908 and George McMeechan 1911.

It then has her remarrying in 1921 to George McMeechan (1886-1953).

MCMEECHAN GEORGE MCMEECHAN HELEN 1921 685/4 1246 St Giles
MCMEECHAN GEORGE MCALPINE HELEN 1921 685/4 1246 St Giles

PERHAPS this is where the George comes from on the War Memorial record ?? Helen and George would probably be down as NOK and he wouldn't really have known his Dad.

Helen's parents are shown as Francis McAlpine and Joan Nicholson Kerr. It shows her dying in 1950

Sister Cecilia is shown as marrying Daniel Logan Harkins in 1894 - first child after her Mother Joan Nicholson Kerr Harkins. If this is the same Cecilia as on the 1911, but there were several Cecilia McMalpine's born within a year or so of each other in Linlithgow. *** I don't think this is correct marriage - see later post

The CWGC entry for the death attributed to Robert Downie McMeechan from the Ancestry tree

Private
MCMEECHAN, R

Service Number S/11709

Died 27/06/1916

Aged 32

2nd Bn.
Black Watch (Royal Highlanders)

Husband of Helen McMeechan, of Wilson's Buildings, Linlithgow Bridge, Linlithgow.

Good thinking about the George question!
Yes, I think that's solved it.

OH You have been busy it is very confusing I do have a few McAlpine's in my tree with the same name I'll have a look at what you have put here and check with what I have ??

Thank you for carrying on most of the names ? may be all of them The problem is a few marry cousins so you finish up with one person mentioned twice on the tree
I'll go over what you have found some of which I haven't got

but still no Francis C M McMeechan 1913

Thank you

Sylvia

" but still no Francis C M McMeechan 1913 "

In what way, Sylvia?

Greyghost has used credits to look at his birth cert on ScotlandsPeople, and his parents are stated to be Robert and Helen, not Robert and Cecilia. (You haven't said where you found that?)

It appears that Robert married Cecilia in 1904, and then they parted company.
He then married Helen in 1908. It seems Helen was Cecilia's sister.

For some reason Cecilia is listed with Robert in 1911 - but as I haven't looked at the image, I can't say in what capacity she was there. Visitor ?
Also, without looking at the image of the census record, or their birth certs, we can't say if the children Robert and James were Helen's or Cecilia's.

Francis was born in 1913.
Robert died in 1916.
Helen then married George McMeechan in 1921.

So Francis would put Helen and George as his parents when he signed up for the army.

He married Phyllis in 1938, and had daughter Gwendoline (1938) .
Raymond was his stepson, born 1934 in Wolverhampton.

Francis died 1944.

As I've said before, it's too much of a coincidence that there would be two people of the same unusual combination of names, born on exactly the same day (dates in birth cert and death record.)

Of course you would have to buy all the certs to be absolutely sure.

What else do you want to know about him?

Birth of the son James (listed in 1911 census):

MCMEECHAN
JAMES HANLON MC- - - [presumably McAlpine]
M
1907
668/ 174
Linlithgow


His death:

MCMEECHAN
JAMES
92
mms MCALPINE
2000
703/ 35
Linlithgow

Birth of the son Robert:

MCMEECHAN
ROBERT TWEED
M
1906
668/ 170
Linlithgow

His death:

MCMEECHAN
ROBERT TWEED
89
mms MCALPINE
1995
703/ 92
Linlithgow


There are also other Robert Tweed McMeechans - births 1934 Muiravonside; 1940 Glasgow (George Square); 1948 Linlithgow (son of the one born 1906 ?? ).

Also, from 1881 census, there was one born Ayrshire approx. 1880.
Actually 1879, spelled McMichan on birth record.

So Sorry I've got the same certificate and your right I just assumed it was the one I wanted as I've said this family is very mixed up I've just got a certificate for George McMeechan married to Agnes Downing as mention above his father is down as .......McAlpine ?? their is a correction but it's as though their correcting George's name I wrote to them but from what I can make out he drowned in a Quarry in Linlithgow

I'll look at the family again for Francis and correct it
Thank you for bringing it to my attention
Sylvia

Let me see if I can get this across - reading to make sense.

3 Cecilia McAlpine births 1865-1875 in Linlithgow

Cecilia Liddle McAlpine 1867 (Linlithgow Burgh) (Wm and Helen Muir) b 11.10.1867
Cecilia Liddell McAlpine 1870 (Thomas and Helen Vine) b 20.10.1870
Cecilia McAlpine 1870 (Francis and Joan Kerr) b 19.5.1870

1871 - Cecilia age 3 d/o William and Ellen (Helen) - nee Muir
1871 - Cecilia age 0 d/o Thomas and Ellen (Helen) - nee Vine
1871 - Cecilia age 0 d/o Francis and Joan - nee Kerr
(Nee names by looking at corresponding marriages and on Family Search in births)

1881 - age 13 d/o Wm and Ellen
1881 - age 10 d/o Thomas and Helen
1881 - age 10 d/o Francis and Joan

1891 - age 20 d/o and Ellen (widow)
1891 - age 20 d/o Francis and Joan (sister Ellen/Helen b 1890)
1891 - Cecilia Inglis age 23 in Plantation, Govan

1901 - Cecilia Inglis b 1867 widow in Govan, Lanarks
1901 - Cecilia Ainslie b 1871 widow in Linlithgow
1901 - Cecilia Harkins - Not found at present

4 Cecilia McAlpine marriages (am excluding the 1872 one)

Cecilia to David Ainslie 1893 - Linlithgow **
Cecilia Liddle to James Inglis 1888 - Plantation (Govan, Lanarks)
Cecilia Liddle to Daniel Harkins 1894 - Linlithgow
Cecilia to Robert M McMeechan 1904 - St Giles **

** I looked at the McMeechan one
Cecilia Ainslie age 31 widow d/o Thomas deceased and Helen nee Vine to Robert M McMeechan age 24 s/o Hugh and Eliza nee Baird

1911 - looking at ages I believe Robert McMeechan and Cecilia are in Linlithgow Ref 668/4/8 with children
MCMEECHAN ROBERT 32 668/4/8
Cecilia 40
Robert 4
James 3

So this is not the Robert who married Helen McAlpine in1908 and had son Francis 1913

My apologies if anything duplicated. Hope it makes sense?

Looks as though Thomas, William and Francis are brothers, hence the duplication of names with Mother being a Cecilia !

1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
141, High Street, Linlithgow, West Lothian, Linlithgowshire (West Lothian), Scotland

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
George McAlpine Head Married Male 41 1810 Tailor England
Cecilia McAlpine Wife Married Female 41 1810 - Linlithgow, Linlithgowshire (West Lothian), Scotland
John McAlpine Son Unmarried Male 19 1832 Journeyman Shoe Maker Linlithgow, Linlithgowshire (West Lothian), Scotland
Thomas McAlpine Son Unmarried Male 15 1836 Journeyman Shoe Maker Linlithgow, Linlithgowshire (West Lothian), Scotland
George McAlpine Son - Male 12 1839 Scholar Linlithgow, Linlithgowshire (West Lothian), Scotland
Margaret McAlpine Daughter - Female 9 1842 Scholar Linlithgow, Linlithgowshire (West Lothian), Scotland
William McAlpine Son - Male 6 1845 Scholar Linlithgow, Linlithgowshire (West Lothian), Scotland
Francis McAlpine Son - Male 3 1848 - Linlithgow, Linlithgowshire (West Lothian), Scotland
Cecilia McAlpine Daughter - Female 0 1851 - Linlithgow, Linlithgowshire (West Lothian), Scotland

As I said very complicated The Robert McMeechan that married Helen McAlpine his parents were George McMeechan and Agnes Downie

The Robert Tweed McMeechan that married Cecilia his parents were Hugh & Elizbaeth nee Baird but I think he was brought up by his grandparents Hugh &Jane Commock although Jane might have been dec when Robert was born

George and Hugh could be brother ? born Ireland

I have a few of the certificates

Their are so many of the same name

OK - so Cecilia is nothing to do with Francis and his father Robert D.

Francis is son of Robert and Helen, and stepson of George, and is the same one who died in 1944.



Sylvia -
you mention George McMeechan who married Agnes Downie.

Their marriage:

MCMEECHAN
GEORGE
DOWNIE
AGNES
1877
668/ 19
Linlithgow


1901 - Agnes is listed with both her surnames .


Robert McMeechan
in the 1901 Scotland Census
Name: Robert McMeechan
Age: 17
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1884 [ fits with age at death ]
Relationship: Son
Father's name: George McMeechan
Gender: Male
Where born: linlithgowbridge, Linlithgowshire
Registration Number: 668
Registration district: Linlithgow
Civil Parish: Linlithgow
County: West Lothian
Address: Falkirk Road
Occupation: Fireman N B Ry
ED: 11
Household schedule number: 52
LINE: 13
Roll: CSSCT1901_357
Household Members:
Name Age
George McMeechan 44 - Ireland
Agnes Downer 42 - Linlithgow
Agnes McMeechan 42 - Linlithgow
Henry McMeechan 22
Ann Jane McMeechan 25
Robert McMeechan 17
Joseph McMeechan 41
Agnes McMeechan 11
George McMeechan 9
William McMeechan 3

I'll get that marriage

No it doesn't tell us anything I suppose it proves George and Robert aren't brothers

George McMeechan 23/33?? Railway Labourer single father Andrew McMeechan Railway Labourer mother Agnes nee Maxwell dec
Agnes Downie 22 single father Robert Downie former weaver mother Agnes nee Downie
Wit;- John Cambell and Robina Downie

I think we're fighting a loosing battle here

I think this is the Robert who married Helen - age fits being 24 at marriage in 1908

? Main Road North

a Bleach worker in Paper Industry - (fits marriage record - ish - Mill worker)

MCMEECHAN
ROBERT
1911
M
27
668/ 10/ 9
Linlithgow
West Lothian

Original shows unreadable name for Wife aged 21 and children Joan N K 2 and George under 1 month. Married 2 years 2 children born

2 George McMeechan's born 1910 Linlithgow - George Ainslie and George but if under 1 month then birth not yet registered?

Joan Nicholson McMeechan b 1908 with this death -

MCMEECHAN
JOAN NICHOLSON
100
MCALPINE
2008
479/ 530
Falkirk

Birth certs will confirm full parent details

The unreadable name would account for Helen being unfindable by name in 1911.

So Helen Netherly McAlpine 1919 wasn't illegitimate after all - my apologies to her.
Presumably legitimate daughter of Helen and Robert D.

But Robert D had died in 1916 ?? I can see why this is so complicated.

Sylann, I think you'll have to buy several more certificates or find someone going to Scottish Records Office with time to spare!!