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Good thinking, Dea!



EDIT:
No, she's not the right person.

She's travelling with a Christophe Jung, [somebody else - possibly Elizabetha ?] Jung, Henry Moler [?], George Weinstein [Weisheim ?], Conrad Jung, Maria Theiss [?], Eliz. Weil. . . .[?]


And she also arrived in Dover from Germany (via Belgium ) in 1837, with Ambrosius Jung, and Christophe Jung.

Margtha Jung
in the England, Alien Arrivals, 1810-1811, 1826-1869
Name: Margtha Jung
Port of Arrival: Dover, England
Arrival date: 1 Mar 1837
Country of Origin/Native of: Germany

Ambrose Jung also arrived in Dover from Germany via Belgium in 1846.
And again in 1847, with George, Gaspar and Johann Jung, and Conrad Koch and Philip Wetzel [?].
A tree on Ancestry has that family, and they were in Hull in 1851.

Margaret Young
in the 1851 England Census
Name: Margaret Young
Age: 55
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1796
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Germany
Civil Parish: Kingston upon Hull Holy Trinity
Ecclesiastical parish: Myton
Town: Kingston upon Hull
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Registration district: Hull
Sub-registration district: Myton
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Neighbors:
Household schedule number: 191
Piece: 2363
Folio: 175
Page Number: 51
Household Members:
Name Age
Margaret Young 55
Christopher Young 29
George Young 25
Casper Young 18
Jacob Young 14
John Young 7


Interesting to note there were lots of Germans living in Hull in 1851.

Just a thought - the name JUNG is German and is pronounced 'Young' !! - John has anglicized his name so why not Margaret ?

I put this here only as an example as I don't really think this is the one but it does give you an idea of the possible name??

Name: Margaretha Jung
Port of Arrival: Dover, England
Arrival date: 8 Apr 1842
Country of Origin/Native of: Germany

Dea x

Still nothing to do with Peter Caspar -

Death ???

REINECK, JOHN 36
GRO Reference: 1849 S Quarter in KINGSTON UPON HULL Volume 22 Page 346


A family of Reinecks in Hull in 1851:

Chas Reineck
in the 1851 England Census
Name: Chas Reineck
Age: 35
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1816
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Fanny Reineck
Gender: Male
Where born: Hamburg
Civil Parish: Kingston upon Hull Holy Trinity
Ecclesiastical parish: St Stephen
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Street address: 51 Spring Street
Registration district: Hull
Sub-registration district: Myton
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors:
Household schedule number: 28
Piece: 2363
Folio: 335
Page Number: 8
Household Members:
Name Age
Chas Reineck 35 - book-keeper
Fanny Reineck 28 - Hamburg
Fredrica Reineck 7 - Hamburg
Mary T Wressel 19 - servant, Hull
Christiana Fowler 36 - visitor, Hull

Just on the off-chance - (although Margaret Young isn't a German name! )

Margret Rennick
in the 1881 England Census
Name: Margret Rennick
Age: 60
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1821
Relationship to Head: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Frankfort (Prussian Nationality), Preußen
Civil Parish: York St Mary Castlegate
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Street address: 122 Friargate
Marital Status: Widow
Occupation: Street Musician
Registration district: York
Sub registration district: Bootham
ED, institution, or vessel: 24
Neighbors:
Piece: 4718
Folio: 108
Page Number: 27
Household Members:
Name Age
Margret Rennick 60

It doesn't help -

but in 1836 a John Nordaby was at 33 Middle Street, a freehold house:

John Nordaby
in the UK, Poll Books and Electoral Registers, 1538-1893
Name: John Nordaby
Poll Year: 1836
Borough: Kingston upon Hull
Parish or Rectory: Holy Trinity and St Mary
County: Yorkshire

Looking at the details of the Rennick marriage, John's address is given as 33 MIddle Street, the same as for Peter Caspar, Peter Caspar is also a witness, along with Mary Tannon.

The bride lives in the same place as Catherine Pisor, but I think that what I transcribed as Jame or James Place previously is actually 'same place' with a fancy 's', so all 4 come from 33 Middle street. In both cases on the register the bride's address is under the groom's, so I now believe 'same place' makes most sense.

Thankyou ArgyllGran.

What a coicidence Johns father being called Caspar when Peters surname was Caspar! The name seems to have changed down the line like many do and it became Casper (which is my hubbys surname).

Certainly a lot to be getting on with now.

Thanks again
Cassie
:-D

Re the Rennicks -

I don't see them anywhere after marriage.

Assuming the marriage transcription is correct, John's father's first name was Caspar:

John Rennick
in the England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973
Name: John Rennick
Gender: Male
Marital Status: Single
Marriage Date: 7 Nov 1842
Marriage Place: Holy Trinity, Hull, York, England
Father: Caspar Rennick
Spouse: Margaret Young
FHL Film Number: 1702265
Reference ID: Pg 74 #148

I can't see Caspar anywhere after that mention, either.

As Caspar (or other spelling) isn't a UK name, perhaps Rennick is an Anglicisation of a German name, and John was a friend of Peter?? such as Renneke ??
Not that I can see any useful records anywhere with that name either!

Thankyou Dea

:-)

I don't think that either bride or groom are required to be present when the banns are read so maybe Catherine was able to arrange this before Peter arrived ?

Perhaps someone else knows a little more on this subject ?

Dea x

I was trying to follow the witnesses at the wedding just in case that gave a lead but I haven't been able to find them yet.

Although I did note that the witnesses were married at the same time as 'our' couple so they could equally well just have been strangers who they called upon to do that duty especially probable if they had been in the4 country for such a short time and may well not have known anyone else?

I will see if I can find them somewhere, just in case?

Dea x

Thanks Dea. He and Catherine married in the last qtr of 1842 so its a possible but that would mean she was either already here ot followed very soon after. As Hull is a port we assumed they had come straight there.

Kucinta
Very interesting that they lived at different addresses even though we were lead to believe they had eloped. That could mean they did come over seperately (maybe pre planned). If banns were read that would mean that it wasnt too much of a hurry?. They dont appear to have had any children until 1844 so it wasnt a 'rushed' wedding it appears.

All this info is great. Im going to type it all up and pass it to my hubbys family.

Thanks again everyone! ;-)

The marriage was after banns, rather than by licence. The groom 's address was 33 Middle St, the bride's was Jane or James (hard to read) Place. Both fathers are desrcibed as 'the late ...'

I am wondering if this might be 'our man', though I can't see any sign of her yet and I know it is rather a long shot ??

Name: Caspar
Port of Arrival: London, England
Arrival date: 5 Nov 1842
Port of Departure: Ostend, Belgium
Ship: Sir Edward Banks
Country of Origin/Native of: Germany
It gives his profession but I can't read it I am afraid.

It would have got him here in time for the wedding but only just !!!

Dea x

Hi all

We know very little about Peter Casper's wife - Catherine PISOR but rumour has it she came from a well-to-do family and her family didnt approve of Peter so they ran away and eloped.

This fits with them coming to England and marrying in Hull. We dont know exactly when they arrived in England but suspect they married pretty quickly (1842). Her year of birth is believed to have been 1825 which would have made her 17 on marriage which would account for them eloping.

Cassie

Wow! What a lot of info. Thankyou all!

Ive had a reply from the owner of a tree and he states the father of our Peter Casper / Caspar was indeed Johann Caspar and Maria Thomas.

With the info above we can now narrow diwn the dates. My hubby is going to have a busy day at the records office tomorrow!

Regards and thsnks everyone. Have a lovely day!

Cassie :-D

????

Peter Kaspar

Germany Births and Baptisms, 1558-1898
christening:
26 June 1822
KATHOLISCH, BUCHENBACH, FREIBURG, BADEN
father:
Johan Georg Kaspar
mother:
Maria Schwarz

Peter Caspari

Germany Births and Baptisms, 1558-1898
christening:
21 November 1818
EVANGELISCH, ERLENBACH KANDEL, PFALZ, BAVARIA
father:
Johann Georg Caspari
mother:
Appellonia Kauter

Peter Simon Lander-Caspar

Germany Births and Baptisms, 1558-1898
christening:
5 July 1818
EVANGELISCH, SCHOETMAR, LIPPE, GERMANY
father:
Johann Friedrich Lander-Caspar
mother:
Anna Maria Landercaspar Or Sprick

In the marriage details, as posted by safc, Peter Caspar's father is recorded as JOHN Caspar, not Peter or Petri.

So this is an alternative possible baptism, a little later than expected

Peter Caspar

in the Germany, Select Births and Baptisms, 1558-1898


Name: Peter Caspar<<<<<<<<<<<<
Gender: Male
Baptism Date: 30 Jul 1823
Baptism Place: Katholisch,Forst **Cochem**,Rheinland,Prussia
Father: Joann Caspar<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Mother: Maria Catharina Thomas
FHL Film Number: 584941

their marriage

Eva Wendels
Deutschland Heiraten, 1558-1929
Name: Petrus Caspar
Spouse's Name: Eva Wendels
Event Date: 20 Jul 1795
Event Place: Katholisch, Confeld, Rheinland, Prussia
Father's Name: Michaelis Caspar
Mother's Name: Barbarae Cunn
Spouse's Father's Name: Jois. Wendels
Spouse's Mother's Name: Mariae Theobald

Eva Wendels
mentioned in the record of Maria Caspar
Name: Eva Wendels
Sex: Female
Husband: Petri Caspar
Daughter: Maria Caspar
Other information in the record of Maria Caspar
from Deutschland, Rheinland, Bistum Trier, katholische Kirchenbücher

Name: Maria Caspar
Event Type: Baptism
Event Place: Confeld, Merzig, Rhein, Preußen, Deutschland
Gender: Female
Birth Date: 4 Feb 1816
Father's Name: Petri Caspar
Mother's Name: Eva Wendels

Evae Wendls
mentioned in the record of Barbara Caspar
Name: Evae Wendls
Sex: Female
Husband: Petri Caspar
Child: Barbara Caspar
Other information in the record of Barbara Caspar
from Deutschland, Rheinland, Bistum Trier, katholische Kirchenbücher

Name: Barbara Caspar
Event Type: Burial
Event Place: Confeld, Merzig, Rhein, Preußen, Deutschland
Age: 24
Birth Year (Estimated): 1805
Death Date: 6 Apr 1829
Father's Name: Petri Caspar
Mother's Name: Evae Wendls