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I don't think that either bride or groom are required to be present when the banns are read so maybe Catherine was able to arrange this before Peter arrived ?

Perhaps someone else knows a little more on this subject ?

Dea x

Thankyou Dea

:-)

Re the Rennicks -

I don't see them anywhere after marriage.

Assuming the marriage transcription is correct, John's father's first name was Caspar:

John Rennick
in the England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973
Name: John Rennick
Gender: Male
Marital Status: Single
Marriage Date: 7 Nov 1842
Marriage Place: Holy Trinity, Hull, York, England
Father: Caspar Rennick
Spouse: Margaret Young
FHL Film Number: 1702265
Reference ID: Pg 74 #148

I can't see Caspar anywhere after that mention, either.

As Caspar (or other spelling) isn't a UK name, perhaps Rennick is an Anglicisation of a German name, and John was a friend of Peter?? such as Renneke ??
Not that I can see any useful records anywhere with that name either!

Thankyou ArgyllGran.

What a coicidence Johns father being called Caspar when Peters surname was Caspar! The name seems to have changed down the line like many do and it became Casper (which is my hubbys surname).

Certainly a lot to be getting on with now.

Thanks again
Cassie
:-D

Looking at the details of the Rennick marriage, John's address is given as 33 MIddle Street, the same as for Peter Caspar, Peter Caspar is also a witness, along with Mary Tannon.

The bride lives in the same place as Catherine Pisor, but I think that what I transcribed as Jame or James Place previously is actually 'same place' with a fancy 's', so all 4 come from 33 Middle street. In both cases on the register the bride's address is under the groom's, so I now believe 'same place' makes most sense.

It doesn't help -

but in 1836 a John Nordaby was at 33 Middle Street, a freehold house:

John Nordaby
in the UK, Poll Books and Electoral Registers, 1538-1893
Name: John Nordaby
Poll Year: 1836
Borough: Kingston upon Hull
Parish or Rectory: Holy Trinity and St Mary
County: Yorkshire

Just on the off-chance - (although Margaret Young isn't a German name! )

Margret Rennick
in the 1881 England Census
Name: Margret Rennick
Age: 60
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1821
Relationship to Head: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Frankfort (Prussian Nationality), Preußen
Civil Parish: York St Mary Castlegate
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Street address: 122 Friargate
Marital Status: Widow
Occupation: Street Musician
Registration district: York
Sub registration district: Bootham
ED, institution, or vessel: 24
Neighbors:
Piece: 4718
Folio: 108
Page Number: 27
Household Members:
Name Age
Margret Rennick 60

Still nothing to do with Peter Caspar -

Death ???

REINECK, JOHN 36
GRO Reference: 1849 S Quarter in KINGSTON UPON HULL Volume 22 Page 346


A family of Reinecks in Hull in 1851:

Chas Reineck
in the 1851 England Census
Name: Chas Reineck
Age: 35
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1816
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Fanny Reineck
Gender: Male
Where born: Hamburg
Civil Parish: Kingston upon Hull Holy Trinity
Ecclesiastical parish: St Stephen
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Street address: 51 Spring Street
Registration district: Hull
Sub-registration district: Myton
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors:
Household schedule number: 28
Piece: 2363
Folio: 335
Page Number: 8
Household Members:
Name Age
Chas Reineck 35 - book-keeper
Fanny Reineck 28 - Hamburg
Fredrica Reineck 7 - Hamburg
Mary T Wressel 19 - servant, Hull
Christiana Fowler 36 - visitor, Hull

Just a thought - the name JUNG is German and is pronounced 'Young' !! - John has anglicized his name so why not Margaret ?

I put this here only as an example as I don't really think this is the one but it does give you an idea of the possible name??

Name: Margaretha Jung
Port of Arrival: Dover, England
Arrival date: 8 Apr 1842
Country of Origin/Native of: Germany

Dea x

Good thinking, Dea!



EDIT:
No, she's not the right person.

She's travelling with a Christophe Jung, [somebody else - possibly Elizabetha ?] Jung, Henry Moler [?], George Weinstein [Weisheim ?], Conrad Jung, Maria Theiss [?], Eliz. Weil. . . .[?]


And she also arrived in Dover from Germany (via Belgium ) in 1837, with Ambrosius Jung, and Christophe Jung.

Margtha Jung
in the England, Alien Arrivals, 1810-1811, 1826-1869
Name: Margtha Jung
Port of Arrival: Dover, England
Arrival date: 1 Mar 1837
Country of Origin/Native of: Germany

Ambrose Jung also arrived in Dover from Germany via Belgium in 1846.
And again in 1847, with George, Gaspar and Johann Jung, and Conrad Koch and Philip Wetzel [?].
A tree on Ancestry has that family, and they were in Hull in 1851.

Margaret Young
in the 1851 England Census
Name: Margaret Young
Age: 55
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1796
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Germany
Civil Parish: Kingston upon Hull Holy Trinity
Ecclesiastical parish: Myton
Town: Kingston upon Hull
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Registration district: Hull
Sub-registration district: Myton
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Neighbors:
Household schedule number: 191
Piece: 2363
Folio: 175
Page Number: 51
Household Members:
Name Age
Margaret Young 55
Christopher Young 29
George Young 25
Casper Young 18
Jacob Young 14
John Young 7


Interesting to note there were lots of Germans living in Hull in 1851.

Wow thankyou all very much for all of this. I'll be typing this all up and passing it to my Caspers.

Can i just ask - is the address of 33 Middle Street where they all lived - is it in Hull? They end up living in York so I wasnt sure if Middle St was Hull or York?

As Hull is a big port I assume the Germans settled there initially when they sailed over to England.

Regards
Cassie :-)

Hi all

Just to throw another spaner in the works....

Various censuses show Peter and Catherine living with their children:
Mary Casper / Caspar b1844 Hull.(daughter)
Peter Casper / Caspar 1846 Hull. Died 1893 York (son)
George Casper / Caspar b1848 Hull. Died 1912 York (son)
HENRY CASPAR b1860 Hull (have birth cert for this one)
William Thomas Casper b1864 York Grandson
??Annie Casper / Caspar 1854 Middlesex????? (daughter)

Thing is I cant find births for Mary, Peter, George, and Annie??? Strange too that Annie (on 1861 census only) being born at other end of the country??

Family rumour has it that they took on someone elses children due someone being a drinker but I dont know if that is true. Henry b1860 is definately Peter and Catherines son as we have his birth cert (hes my hubbys ggrandfather). He was born some 18yrs after Peter and Catherine married!

Bit of a mystery.....

Cassie
:-S :-S

Given as the marriages took place in the parish of Holy Trinity in Hull, and nothing further is added to the address in the entry for participants in either marriage other than 33 Middle Street, I would assume Middle Street was in Hull.

Henry is the only one I found a baptism in Yorkshire for:

First name(s) Henry
Last name Casper
Birth year -
Baptism year 1860
Baptism date 02 Oct 1860
Baptism place York, St Mary Castlegate
Denomination Anglican
Father's first name(s) Peter
Mother's first name(s) Catherine
County Yorkshire (Ainsty & City of York)
Country England
Archive reference PR Y/MC 139
Page 165
Archive Borthwick Institute for Archives
Record set Yorkshire Baptisms

Their abode was Friargate and Peter is a labourer.

Thanks Kucinta. Yes Henry b1860 is my husbands g grandfather. The others are a mystery.

Thankyou :-S

More baptisms?

England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

Name John Peter Casper
Gender Male
Christening Date 14 Mar 1846
Christening Date (Original) 14 MAR 1846
Christening Place HOLY TRINITY,KINGSTON UPON HULL,YORK,ENGLAND
Father's Name Peter Casper
Mother's Name Catherine

Name Johann George Caspar
Gender Male
Christening Date 17 Sep 1848
Christening Date (Original) 17 SEP 1848
Christening Place HOLY TRINITY,KINGSTON UPON HULL,YORK,ENGLAND
Father's Name Peter Caspar
Mother's Name Catharina

Possible marriage for [John] Peter (did he knock a couple of years off his age as his bride was so much younger?)

Name Peter Casper<<<<<<<<<<<<
Birth Date 1849
Age 30
Spouse's Name Mary Jane Calverley
Spouse's Birth Date 1857
Spouse's Age 22
Event Date 1879
Event Place Saint Mary Castlegate, York, York, England
Father's Name Peter Casper<<<<<<<<<<<<
Spouse's Father's Name James Calverley

and [Johann] George:

Name George Casper<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Spouse's Name Mary Davis
Event Date 1870
Event Place Saint Mary Castlegate, York, York, England
Father's Name Peter Casper<<<<<<<<<<<
Spouse's Father's Name Charles Davis

Marriage for Ann?


Ann Casper
mentioned in the record of Clark Day and Ann Casper
Name Clark Day
Birth Date 1854
Age 21
Spouse's Name Ann Casper<<<<<<<<<<<
Spouse's Birth Date 1855
Spouse's Age 20
Event Date 14 Jul 1875
Event Place York, England
Spouse's Father's Name Peter Casper<<<<<<<<<<

Looks like Mary may have been the mother of an illegitimate child, William Henry Caspar:

England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

Name William Henry Casper
Gender Male
Christening Date 13 Sep 1863
Christening Date (Original) 13 SEP 1863
Christening Place SAINT MARY CASTLEGATE,YORK,YORK,ENGLAND
Mother's Name Mary Casper

Possible second marriage for Mary as her name on marriage is Earnshaw,but father is given as Peter Caspar:

Name: Mary Earnshaw
[Mary Casper]
Gender: Female
Marriage Date: 17 Mar 1868
Marriage Place: Saint Mary Castlegate, York, York, England
Father: Peter Casper
Spouse: Thomas Holloway
FHL Film Number: 1068537
Reference ID: 2:2B2FRFD

EDIT: More detail on marriage:

First name(s) Mary
Last name Earnshaw
Age Of Full Age
Residence Friargate
Marriage year 1868
Marriage date 17 Mar 1868
Marriage place York, St Mary Castlegate
Spouse's first name(s) Thomas
Spouse's last name Holloway
Spouse's age Of Full Age
Spouse's residence Fulford
Father's first name(s) Peter
Father's last name Casper
Spouse's father's first name(s) George
Spouse's father's last name Holloway
County Yorkshire (Ainsty & City of York)
Country England
Archive reference PR Y/MC 144
Page 115

EDIT: Mary is described as a widow. Interestingly one of the witnesses is a Kate RENICK.

William Henry is with Peter and Catherine in 1871, 1881, and 1891.

He's probably the William Thomas, grandson, 1864, mentioned earlier by Cassie as one of the ones she couldn't find a birth for.


His death?

Deaths Mar 1949 (>99%)
Casper William H 86 York 2d 1068

Annie also disappears for a while after her marriage to Clark Day in 1875.

Their daughter Lillie / Lillian was christened in York in Dec 1875, five months after the marriage, and Lillie married Robert Cochrane in York in 1894.

No sign of Annie, Clark, or Lillie in 1881 or 1891.

Lillian Day
in the England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973
Name: Lillian Day
Gender: Female
Marriage Date: 23 Dec 1894
Marriage Place: York, England
Father: Clarke Day
Spouse: Robert Sanderson Cochrane
FHL Film Number: 2093481


In 1901 Lillie's mother is listed as Annie Spencer, born Commercial Road, Whitechapel 1861, wife of [somebody] Spencer "in S Africa".

I don't see that marriage - maybe took place abroad.

Annie Spencer
in the 1901 England Census
Name: Annie Spencer
Age: 40
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1861
Relation to Head: Mother-in-law
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Commercival Rd Whitesburne, London, England
Civil Parish: York
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary Bishophill Senior with St Clement
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Street address:
Registration district: York
Sub-registration district: Micklegate
ED, institution, or vessel: 20
Neighbors:
Piece: 4442
Folio: 164
Page Number: 32
Household schedule number: 197
Household Members:
Name Age
Robert S Cochrane 29
Lillian Cochrane 24
Robert L Cochrane 5
Thomas L Cochrane 3
Charles Cochrane 1
Annie Spencer 40
Emily Cochrane 15 - niece, Newcastle