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That's disappointing, Alan.

However, at least we know we can rule that one out.

The death certificate Southampton arrived but was not for my Harry May.

Interesting. Thank you.

Alan ..............

lots of people did that!!

Divorce was extremely difficult and expensive for ordinary folk right up until the 1930s, yet marriages have broken down since time immemorial. Couples sometimes stuck together regardless, but many more left their partners, and moved on.

A lot married again, bigamously of course, describing themselves on the marriage certificate as Bachelor/Spinster or Widow/er as they felt fit.

Others just formed common-law couples, but could also describe themselves as above.

Women who had children tended to describe themselves as Widows.

We've all been led astray at times by believing that someone was dead when he or she really was not. The rule of thumb I follow is, if I can't find death records for someone before the date they were described as deceased, then look for the record after ........... even up to the age when the person might have turned 110!

Thank you everyone who has so far contributed. Have requested the DC for Harry May Southampton. Interesting idea SylviainCanada that she may have said she was a widow when she wasn't.

Have you searched The Stage or local newspapers for reports of his death?

It would be surprising not to find it reported as he was seemingly so well known.


Alternatively .............. try searching later than Isabel's death, he might have still been alive.

Remember that the information on a death certificate is largely only hearsay ...... what was told to the informant. Lots of people lied!

The only information you can trust on a death certificate is the date, cause and place of death, the doctor or coroner's name and address, and the informant's name, address and occupation. Literally everything else can be hearsay and untrue.

If Isabel had moved in with Thomas Edwards, she may have told people that she was a widow ........ she may possibly have told Thomas that.

Who was the informant on the death certificate?

with his wife in 1911 census

Arthur Lloyd Jones
England and Wales Census, 1911
Name: Arthur Lloyd Jones
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 1911
Event Place: Chelmsford, Chelmsford, Essex, England
County: Essex
Parish: Chelmsford
Sub-District: Chelmsford
Registration District: Chelmsford
Gender: Male
Age: 35
Marital Status (Original): MARRIED
Occupation: THEATRICAL PROFESSION
Birth Year (Estimated): 1876
Birthplace: Rhyl N Wales, Flintshire
Relationship to Head of Household: Boarder
Line: 8
Page: 1
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
Frederick Jiggins Head Male 44 Gt Leighs, Essex
Emily Jiggins Wife Female 39 Gt Waltham, Essex
Winifred Jiggins Daughter Female 8 Springfield, Essex
Fredrick Jiggins Son Male 4 Springfield, Essex
Jack Jiggins Son Male 2 Springfield, Essex
James Poulton Boarder Male 82 Gt Waltham, Essex
Sidney James Abbott Boarder Male 23 Suffolk
Arthur Lloyd Jones Boarder Male 35 Rhyl N Wales, Flintshire
Mabel Isabel Jones Boarder Wife Female 25 London, London

The Harry May death might be worth a try. Southampton's not unfeasibly far from Bournemouth.

I wonder if he had changed his name officially?

GRO shows this for the 1926 death:

JONES, ARTHUR LLEWELYN 49 Order
GRO Reference: 1926 S Quarter in BANGOR Volume 11B Page 482

Dea x

A search for Arthur Lloyd Jones on Ancestry produces a result showing a tree which says the 1926 Bangor death is his.

However, when I open the tree it says his death date is unknown.

EDIT:
anyway the 1926 death isn't him - thanks, Dea, below.

Unfortunately both the 1926 death and the 1932 one were both for a Harry LLEWELLYN Jones.

Dea x

Welcome to the boards, Alan.

With such a choice of possible names, and the fact that he moved around a lot, it's difficult to pinpoint his death - but at least presumably it was between 1925 and 1935.


If he died as Arthur Lloyd Jones, there are a couple of possibilities:

Deaths Mar 1932 (>99%)
Jones Arthur L 57 Merthyr T. 11a 891

Deaths Sep 1926 (>99%)
Jones Arthur L 49 Bangor 11b 482

If his middle initial wasn't included, then there are several more..

As Harry May, there's this one:

Deaths Jun 1930 (>99%)
May Harry 54 Southampton 2c 110

No way of knowing without buying copies of the certificates.

I was born and raised in Hastings as were my parents. I have been researching my family tree for some time but recently made some new and intriguing discoveries.

My mother was born Gwendoline Mabel JONES in 1912. Her parents were Arthur Lloyd JONES and Mabel Isabel JONES (nee RAYMOND). Arthur was born in Rhyl in North Wales in 1876 and Mabel was born in London (Newington) in 1886. I do know that both of them were on the stage. Not only is this shown as their profession on my mother's birth certificate but I also have some family photographs of them in their stage personae.

Arthur's stage name was Harry MAY and Mabel's was Isa MAY. They went variously under the names of "The Two Mays" or "Isa and Harry". Isabel also went under a separate stage name of Isa BERNARD and sometimes Betty BERNARD. Arthur was sometimes Harry MAY and also Eddie MAY. All these names appear on photos that they have signed for well-wishers. Until very recently that was the sum total of my knowledge about my maternal grandparents. My mother died in 1997 and my father in 2007. (Why don't we ask them more while we still can?)

I decided to do some investigation on the archives of "The Stage" newspaper and was thrilled to be able to uncover about 150 separate references to their appearances in Music Halls up and down the country from 1903 to 1925. They styled themselves as a Comedy Duo. One of Isa's photos says "Comedienne". In adverts from "The Stage" she was also termed a Soubrette. At one stage they produced a very successful pantomime "Dick Whittington". The various appearances were in well-known theatres all over England, Wales and Ireland. I have no records of them appearing in Scotland. Strangely in one cutting they appeared as Arthur Lloyd and Maida Raymond (using his Christian names and her maiden surname).

Harry and Isa were married in Camberwell, London in 1908 but were appearing together as early as 1904. Before 1904 Harry seems to have started his acting career in North Wales where he was born. I think he was attracted to the Pierrots on Rhyl Pier and actually performed there himself in costume. I am not sure what took them to Hastings but there is a reference to them both appearing there in 1905. Hastings was, of course, one of the birthplaces of the seaside musical and variety show which may account for their presence. I also recall my mother saying that they were also Pierrots in their early days and one photograph shows a Pierrot Troupe. The Stage newspaper contains references to "The White Coons" (1908) and to "Uncle Tom's Eastbourne Minstrels" (1913) both references mentioning his name.

So far so good! However, the plot thickens. My mother later had a step-father called Thomas James Edwards. He was born in London and emigrated to Canada in 1914. He enlisted in the Canadian Expeditionary Force and sailed back to Britain - en route for the Somme - in 1915. At one stage he was evacuated to the UK and spent time in hospital in Seaford but returned to the Front in September 1918. Shortly thereafter he was awarded the Military Medal for bravery in the field. Thanks to friends and descendants of his Canadian Battalion I have a cutting detailing his award. He was finally discharged in April 1919.

I never knew how my mother came to have a step-father. Then, by chance, I found reference to the birth of Thomas Edwards' son James in March 1919. Obtaining a copy of that birth certificate I was very surprised to find out that his mother was "Isabel Edwards formerly Raymond". The birth of his son to Isabel was registered in Hastings in May 1919 which will have been just after his discharge.

So why did Isa and Harry split up? The records from The Stage show them performing together right up to 1925. I deduce that Isabel and Thomas Edwards never formally married. I found Isabel's death certificate which shows she died in Hastings in 1935 aged 47 and is recorded on it as: "Isabel Mabel Jones, commonly known as Edwards. Widow of Harry Jones an Actor (Stage)." This would indicate that they co-habited but were not actually married.

The mystery I am left with is what happened to Arthur/Harry Jones/May. The last reference to him and Isabel I can find is a Stage advert mentioning "Isa Bernard and Eddie May" at the Central Picture Palace in Hastings in Nov/Dec 1925. But another advert dated 29 October 1925 in The Stage shows "Harry May" seeking to sell stage props giving an address in Bournemouth. The nature of the props ties in with the characters and costumes he and Isabel used in their many performances. Thereafter, the trail on Arthur/Harry goes cold. All I know is the reference to Isabel being his widow when she died in 1935. If anyone can help me break down my brick wall I would be extremely grateful.