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I don’t know where I got those names I’m afraid. I thought I’d seen Kathleen Mathias in an entry but going back through my notes and family tree listings I can’t find it. So perhaps they’re not Christopher’s parents at all. If I get the marriage certificate that will give the fathers name. Did they have birth certificates that long ago?
Apologies.
Glyn

Thanks Jude. I know names get spelt incorrectly, and dates can be suspect, but I didnt realise how far from the real name census returns can be!! I suppose the problem comes from people not being able to read or write to check what was written, and if they had a strong accent the person filling in the form would put what they thought they’d heard!!!

No help on finding Christopher and Leah for you but an example of how things can skew your research if you believe everything you see!

This 1841 census

James Marchant clothier age 40
Sarah 30
Dorcas 15
Sarah 15
Angelina 10
James 10
William 5.

Sarah - and it IS Sarah in the original - is actually Maria.
William - again correct in original - is Alfred

:-0

Jude

Love the description! - two lusty fellows of somewhat savage appearance.
They didn't have to worry about political correctness in those days!

Re Christopher 1847, he may well have been Christopher & Leah's son, if they were a couple although not officially married, and Christopher senior took responsibility.

I don't see Christopher in 1841 either unless he's Charles here:

1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Nanty Glo, Aberystruth, Abergavenny, Monmouthshire, Wales

Evan Jones Male 40 1801 -
Jane Jones Female 11 1830 -
Margaret Hewel Female 25 1816 -
Samuel Greenaway Male 25 1816 Monmouthshire, Wales
Charles Greenaway Male 15 1826 Monmouthshire, Wales
Thomas Jones Male 25 1816
------------------------------

Several articles in the paper re this incident:

07 August 1847 - Monmouthshire Beacon - Monmouth, Gwent, Wales
John William, aged 36, and Christopher Greenway, aged 22, two lusty fellows of somewhat savage appearance, wore charged with having broken into and entered the house of John Thomas in the parish of Aberystruth with intent to kill and Murder him......

Where did you find reference to Christopher 1798-ish or Kathleen Matthias, Glyn?

I can't see any sign of them anywhere.

There are some women in various parts of Wales called Catherine Matthew / Matthews/ Mathias at about the right time, but no link to any Greenaway (or similar) that I can see.

With the various spellings of Greenaway combined with common names of Davies/ Davis & Jones I agree the certificates are a must.

I was interested in the birth of a Christopher Greenaway in 1847- in Nanty Glo- the child died at 3 months old (abode registered as Nanty Glo on the burial), but what's interesting is that this child also had mother's maiden name Davies- but your Christopher didn't marry Leah Davies until 1850- so whose child is it?

Regarding Christopher Greenaway and Kathleen Mathias- where did the information come from Glyn?

Thanks Chris. You’re a star not a fossil!!

(that's the way to do it,fingers crossed)

We find things Glyn through teamwork, when we work on 'Threads', bit like 'Team GR' we are, lol, never knowing what will turn up, but every little helps, as they say!.

Chris :)

(sometimes I feel like a fusty ol' fossil on these 'Boards', lol, admits I would be lost without the 'thrill')

Yes I agree. I will send off for their certs. Thanks a lot everyone. I’m just amazed at all the information you discover and so quickly.
I really appreciate the value of your expertise and experience in finding these records etc
Glyn

Well, 'new or old' Glyn, lol, my advice/tip would be to go back to starting points and get Certs...then see where they lead, with a lot of info. on this 'Thread' now, hopefully the Census entries will be them...

Might seem like a lot of money to fork out!, but that is the way to do it, and Family History doesn't come cheap!, but, rewards are priceless!, also, you then have facts.

Hopefully, you will then be able to see 'the wood from the trees'!, and it might not be too bad, lol, then you can start on the Jones side of things...(will await that!)

(and you're lucky those newspapers are free!, we have to have subscriptions for others!, but they are a great source to us)

(to be honest, I hadn't even got to Christopher and Kathleen!)

Chris :)

Below were your first couple of lines...


Glyn Report 4 Apr 2018 18:33

My great great grandfather was Christopher Greenaway (1857-1919). His father was Christopher

So Christopher was married to Elizabeth Jones ( 1854-1904) and then later Lavinia Emily Baker (1857-1926).

One other question did anyone find out anything more about Christopher and Kathleen Mathias?
Thanks again
Glyn

Well thanks to your newspaper reference Chris my wife and I have just spent a hilarious evening reading of various Greenaways and Greenways who have been crooks or got their comeuppance!!!!
I have looked at all the points you’ve make AQ and Argyll Gran and I’m confused now. When I first looked at my family I found Christopher and Sarah and assumed they were my relatives, but when I followed the line it lead to different people not my family at all. But now I’m wondering if that census is correct ( with Leah being called Sarah for some odd reason) and then instead of searching for a Sarah Greenaway I should have gone back to Leah ( as I eventually did, but wrote off the Sarah link ) very confusing.
I am very new to this ancestry search, and you all have much more experience than me, so I will follow that lead and see where it goes.
Thank you all very much.

I'm with you, AQ - I don't see anything to prove they're a different family.
No other Samuel births in Wales; no Christopher / Sarah marriage; no sign of Christopher & Sarah in any other census; no death of a Sarah Greenaway (or variation).

Even trying the surname Goronwy doesn't produce any useful results.

But yes, as Glyn's satisfied they're a different couple, we'll have to let it go - it's not our search, after all.

AG- annoyingly the original image for the 1881 is clear- and it does say Sarah, but I'm struggling to see how it isn't the right family.

I'm leaving it for now as Glyn has researched and found it not to be connected- so I perhaps need to let it go :-)..... maybe

I agree re the 1881 census - it must be them, with Leah's name mistranscribed because of difficult handwriting - though, frustratingly, I can't see the image to check what's written, as Ancestry has linked the wrong image to the record.

Found another family living in Edwards Court in 1881 and tried to look at it that way - but still the same wrong image.

And FS seems unable to produce the image - the little wheel just keeps going round and round. Their transcription does give her name as Sarah.

Well I didn't see another Samuel Birth AQ...(and what about Christopher and Enoch stealing them gooseberries 1870!, lol) Enoch (1859) Mother Maiden Davis...

(must be them on 1871 posted, Samuel their Brother)

Chris :)

(all starting to get like something from 'Miss Marple', clues in the news, lol)

I'm still baffled by that 1881 census.

I assumed this was your Samuel's birth 1867 (not 1866)

Birth
GREENWAY, SAMUEL (mother's maiden name: DAVIES )
GRO Reference: 1867 D Quarter in MERTHYR TYDFIL Volume 11A Page 332

1891- stating Pontlottyn as place of birth (as on 1881 census):

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Fifteenth Row, Bedwellty, Monmouthshire, Wales

Samuel Greenaway Head Married Male 20 1871 Pontlottyn Glamorganshire, Coal Miner
Catherine Greenaway Wife Married Female 19 1872 - -
Leah Greenaway Daughter Single Female 2 1889 - -
Mary A Curtis Mother Widow Female 38 1853 Glamorganshire, Wales
Enoch Greenaway Lodger married Male 28 1863 Pontlottyn Glamorganshire Coal miner

death?:
First name(s) SAMUEL
Last name GREENAWAY
Gender Male
Birth year 1869
Age 22
Death quarter 2
Death year 1891
District Bedwellty
County Monmouthshire
Volume 11A Page 96
--------------------------------

There was another Samuel born in 1865 (same maiden name)

Birth:
GREENWAY, SAMUEL (mother's maiden name: DAVIES)
GRO Reference: 1865 D Quarter in MERTHYR TYDFIL Volume 11A Page 318

His death:
GREENWAY, SAMUEL Age: 0
GRO Reference: 1866 M Quarter in MERTHYR TYDFIL Volume 11A Page 215

Possible burial for him age is added as 7 months but I think he was younger:
name(s) Samuel Greenway
Age 7months
Birth year 1866
Residence Pontlottyn<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Burial date 12 Jan 1866
Place Rhymney
County Monmouthshire
Notes D J Jones, curate
-------------------------------------------

Then there is also this birth (and death)- with same mother's maiden name.

Birth:
GREENWAY, JOHN DAVIES (mother's maiden name: DAVIES)
GRO Reference: 1870 J Quarter in MERTHYR TYDFIL Volume 11A Page 365

Death:
GREENWAY, JOHN 0
GRO Reference: 1870 S Quarter in MERTHYR TYDFIL Volume 11A Page 192

Burial:
First name(s) John Davies Greenway
Age 3months
Birth year 1870
Residence Pontlottyn<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Burial date 30 Sep 1870
Place Rhymney
County Monmouthshire
Notes Asa Richards, Curate
Record set Monmouthshire Burials
-------------------------------------

I don't see another Greenway/ Greenaway to Davies/ Davis marriage in this area (although I might be missing it?).

I saw the article about stealing potatoes!!! Will check out the coal ones. Thanks Chris :-D

Hi Austin Q I don’t have 1881 census as yet but they were living in Gellygaer in 1861-1871 spelt Grenaway. Although Christopher and Sarah came from Nantyglo too I finally discovered they were not the same people as Christopher and Leah.
Samuel was born in 1866 in Gellygaer.
The spelling for 1881 census must be a strange one too.
Samuel died in 1891 not long after he married as far as I can see.
The family unmarried ones moved to Ynysybwl where the next few generations were brought up. That’s it as far as I know.

Thanks Argyll Gran for extra info about Mary.

Yes Chris I’ll send off for their marriage certificate. I try to find out what I can without doing so as it can be costly ordering too many!!! But you’re right, to go further, especially with Jones as a surname, I need the marriage certificate. Thanks everyone.
Glyn