Find Ancestors

Side-tracking back to George for a moment , if you're interested in other bits of the family -

I posted earlier about the fact that his second wife was not Louisa, as you have on your tree on Ancestry.

In fact it looks like he married Cecilia Mary Hennessey.

Marriages Jun 1908 (>99%)
BURT George Islington 1b 638
HENNESSEY Cecilia Mary Islington 1b 638


Here he is in 1911, with son Albert from his first marriage, and two children from the second one (so Harry had a couple of half siblings). George had been married to Cecilia for 3 years:

George Burt
in the 1911 England Census
Name: George Burt
Age in 1911: 44
Estimated birth year: abt 1867
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: St Pancras
Civil Parish: Islington
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 21 Calverley Grove, Upper Holloway N
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: CARMAN EMPLOYED
Registration district: Islington
Registration District Number: 10
Sub-registration district: Upper Holloway
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Piece: 806
Household Members:
Name Age
George Burt 44
Cecilia Mary Burt 32
Albert Burt 10
Sidney Richd Vincent Burt 2
Eleen Cecilia Burt 1.


Cecilia M Burt
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Cecilia M Burt
Death Age: 83
Birth Date: abt 1879
Registration Date: Sep 1962
Registration district: Hendon
Inferred County: Middlesex
Volume: 5e
Page: 421

Sidney R V Burt
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1916-2005
Name: Sidney R V Burt
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1960
Registration district: Willesden
Inferred County: Middlesex
Spouse: Ivy E Hoar
Volume Number: 5f
Page Number: 544

Sidney and Ivy don't appear to have had children.

Sidney Richard V Burt
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Sidney Richard V Burt
Death Age: 74
Birth Date: 28 Dec 1906
Registration Date: Mar 1981
Registration district: Thanet
Inferred County: Kent
Volume: 16
Page: 2172

Ivy Edith Burt
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Ivy Edith Burt
Death Age: 71
Birth Date: 6 Apr 1908
Registration Date: Dec 1979
Registration district: Thanet
Inferred County: Kent
Volume: 16
Page: 1702


George & Cecilia's daughter Eileen:

1935 she's with George, Cecilia Mary, and Sidney Richard V. -

Eileen Cecilia Burt
in the London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965
Name: Eileen Cecilia Burt
Year: 1935
County or Borough: Willesden
Ward or Division/Constituency: Willesden West
Street address: 3 Franklyn Road

She married her cousin -

Eileen C Burt
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1916-2005
Name: Eileen C Burt
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1935
Registration district: Willesden
Inferred County: Middlesex
Spouse: Vincent J Hennessey
Volume Number: 3a
Page Number: 523

They may have had a daughter Mary in Croydon in 1937

Vincent John Hennessey was the son of a brother of Cecilia Mary -

Vincent John Hennessey
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Vincent John Hennessey
Age in 1911: 2
Estimated birth year: abt 1909
Relation to Head: Son
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Chestershire, England
Civil Parish: Chester
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England
Street address: 2 Garden Terrace Spital Walk Boughton Chester
Registration district: Chester
Registration District Number: 450
Sub-registration district: Chester Castle
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Piece: 21851
Household Members:
Name Age
George Friderick Hennessey 34 <<<<<<<
Edith Ellen Hennessey 34
Richard George Hennessey 7
Vincent John Hennessey 2



George Fred Hennessey
in the 1891 England Census
Name: George Fred Hennessey
Gender: Male
Age: 14
Relationship: Son
Birth Year: 1877
Father: Hennessey
Mother: Emily Hennessey
Birth Place: Holborn, London, England
Civil Parish: St George
Residence Place: Stamford, St George, Lincolnshire, England
Sub registration district: Stamford
ED, Institution or Vessel: 5
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 2552
Folio: 69
Household Members:
Name Age
Hennessey 42
Emily Hennessey 38
Ellen Martha Hennessey 17
Richard John Hennessey 15
George Fred Hennessey 14
Cecilia Mary Hennessey 12 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Elisabeth Florence Hennessey 10
Agnes Maud Hennessey 9
John Albert Hennessey 6
Rose Gertrude Hennessey 1


Eileen Cecilia Hennessey
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Eileen Cecilia Hennessey
Death Age: 92
Birth Date: 16 Jan 1910
Registration Date: Jul 2002
Registration district: Chichester
Inferred County: Sussex
Register Number: 7BD
District and Subdistrict: 7791B
Entry Number: 170


??
Vincent John Hennessey
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Vincent John Hennessey
Death Age: 76
Birth Date: 30 Jul 1908
Registration Date: Jan 1985
Registration district: Bromley
Inferred County: Greater London
Volume: 11
Page: 1117


George was still in Willesden until at least 1954, here with Sidney R V:

George Burt
in the London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965
Name: George Burt
Year: 1954
County or Borough: Willesden
Ward or Division/Constituency: Willesden West
Street address: 3 Church Road
Reference Number: MR/PER/C/0864


Sorry, I got a bit carried away!

I wonder if this is Kathleen with her parents and siblings on the 1911 census (note her father's occupation which ties in with Harry's occupation in 1939 - could he have worked with her father?):-

1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
13 Sandringham Road Thornton Heath Surrey, Croydon, Surrey, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Birth place Occupation

Albert Charles Sullivan Head Married Male 50 1861 St Ives Cornwell House Painter Papermonger
Minnie Sullivan Wife Married Female 38 1873 Ireland
Kate Sullivan Daughter Single Female 16 1895 Fulham London General Servant Domestic<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Minnie Sullivan Daughter Single Female 15 1896 Fulham London General Servant Domestic
Dorothy Sullivan Daughter - Female 10 1901 Fulham London School
Eva Sullivan Daughter - Female 8 1903 Fulham London School
Charles Sullivan Son - Male 7 1904 Croydon Surrey School

Kath. x

Joseph Daniel William Burt

in the London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965
Name: Joseph Daniel William Burt
Year: 1945
County or Borough: Southwark
Ward or Division/Constituency: Camberwell
Street address: 3 Gairloch Rd
no other person listed with him


in the London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-196

Name: Joseph D Burt
Year: 1948
County or Borough: Southwark
Ward or Division/Constituency: Camberwell
Gairloch Road
with Cecilia Burt

in the London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965
Name: Joseph D Burt
Year: 1952
County or Borough: Southwark
Ward or Division/Constituency: Peckham
Gairloch Road
with Cecilia J

You said you were buying the certs for Joseph.
Wait and see what they say.

I'll PM you the details of the second birth record in case you want to order that as well.

[EDIT: I see Maddie's already done that.]

The marriage cert for Joseph and Celia would also let you know if he's the right one or not.

hi
i posted about the two possible births. I wll send you a pm with the second one
Maddie

Thank you ArgyllGran, I feel like I'm hitting a brick wall now :-(

Thanks to you lovely people on here I have found out that Harry was on the 1939 census living with Kathleen Burt formally Sullivan (his first wife) at 26 Bensham Manor Road where there was 3 people in the household. After a visit to my local reaseach centre they have told me that its a closed record (possibly the child is still alive??)

I have a possible death for Kathleen, birth about 1891, red date 1943 and buried on the 22nd Dec in a grave with a Nellie Sullivan (possibly a relative).

A possible birth date of 6/12/1894 but with no location?

I am now desperate to find out who the 3rd person is........ as a possible child it would mean that my dad had a brother he never knew about (sadly dad has passed)

Somebody posted that there were 2 births that would match Harry and Kathleen but only posted one as there was no death record for the second. As i cannot find anything on Kathleen I'm struggling to find anything on the possible son "Joseph"?? and could the result you found be our Joseph who married Dench?

I'm not sure what else to do....... as someone who is battling cancer for the second time i just hope i can find out before i snuff it hahah

Thank you again for helping xxxx

https://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/things-to-do/london-metropolitan-archives/the-collections/Pages/ts-exmouth.aspx


Don't know where you got your info about the TS Exmouth or how much you got -

Information about TS Exmouth via above and several other sites if you google.

A tree on Ancestry has Joseph Daniel William Burt (1923-94) and his wife Celia Jane Dench (1922-2011) on it - and nobody else.


Joseph D W Burt
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1916-2005
Name: Joseph D W Burt
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1944
Registration district: Camberwell
Inferred County: Surrey
Spouse: Celia J Dench
Volume Number: 1d
Page Number: 790


FreeBMD shows four Burt / Dench births - I don't know if any of them are Joseph & Celia's children:

one in Brighton in 1935 - a long time before the marriage, if their child.
two in Rochford, 1957 and 1959;
one in Hatfield in 1969.

EDIT:

I don't see her death on Ancestry. According to Ancestry ,she's on a Devon ER until 2010, at an address which was sold in 2016, per Zoopla.

so..... I dragged myself out (in the snow) to the local research centre to look on the electoral register for the third member of the household (above 1939 Harry & Kathleen Burt, 26 Bensham Manor Road). They have informed me that there is a third person but it is as closed record presumably that person could still be alive. Apparently I can request for the info but may not be fortunate :-(

Will purchase the certs for this "Joseph" and see if it gives any light...... will look for Joseph on here and hope for the best. Feeling like I'm going to hit a blank here

Thank you everyone <3

No help with Harry, I'm afraid, but just a comment and correction re your tree on Ancestry, Joanna -

The second family you list for George, with wife Louisa and several children, is incorrect.

That's a different George.
He's with Louisa and children in 1901, in Ashford, Kent, when your George is with Mary Ann and family.
George & Louisa's children all have mms Cobb, so this will be that other George's marriage:
Marriages Mar 1895 (>99%)
Burt George William Bridge 2a 989
Cobb Louisa Rhoda Bridge 2a 989

Why are some records in the 1939 Register officially closed?
Answer:

Individuals’ records remain closed for 100 years from their date of birth (100 year rule). Records remain closed for people born less than 100 years ago until proof of death is verified. As more records become open as a result of the 100 year rule, more records will become available to search and view online at Findmypast. Of the 41 million records, approximately 13 million (around 32%) will be closed at publication. The 1939 Register will be updated regularly.

https://tinyurl.com/y7tvtcdu

Thank you Erika <3

What does it mean when it states "closed record" xx

Re-posting 1939, showing 'closed record' - a child, presumably

Burt Household (3 People)
26 Bensham Manor Road , Croydon C.B., Surrey, England


FIRST NAME(S) LAST NAME(S) DOB SEX OCCUPATION MARITAL STATUS SCHEDULE SCHEDULE SUB NUMBER
Harry Burt 28 Feb 1897 Male House Decorator Married 28 1
Kathleen Burt 06 Dec 1894 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 28 2
Sorry, this record is officially closed. Check if you can open a closed record.

just saying it is a possible marriage, Kitty can be short for Kathleen and possibly 2 sons born but certificates would be needed to prove or disprove
maddie

https://www.deceasedonline.com/servlet/GSDOSearch

(above has a Kathleen Burt, credits needed to view details)

Chris :)

Thank you guys <3

I am slightly confused now hahaha

So are we (you) saying that Harry was married to Kathleen? will purchase a cert for this.

But then who is "Kitty Sullivan" - is this a shortened name for Kathleen and Sullivan being her maiden name?

And who is Joseph?

(yep!, just seen and added!)

Chris :)

On Ancestry, Chris

Name: Harry Burt
Age: 14
Birth Date: 28 Feb 1897
Residence Year: 1911
Residence Place: St Mary's Islington
Entrance Date: 9 Aug 1911
Entrance Place: Grays, Essex, England
SAVE Cancel

How did you come by Training Ship Exmouth reference...

Chris )

Edits (was it below?)

London, England, TS Exmouth Training Ship Records, 1876-1918 (Ancestry)

'unpaid domestic duties' is official 'speak' for housewife.

In other words, she stayed at home and looked after the home and family

There is also a 'paid domestic duties' category