Find Ancestors

(lol AQ, think I wear me brain out sometimes, lol, nosin' in families, but look at where we helpers go in a week, all over the globe, fascinating really..)

Egb, good to see you here, and with that find, think below fits...

Chris :)

http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/index.php

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1882

WHITE John H Kirkdale Liverpool KIRK/32/24


Birth
WHITE, JOHN HANLEY (HANLEY)
GRO Reference: 1882 J Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 08B Page 6

Birth
WHITE, SAMUEL (HANDLEY)
GRO Reference: 1877 D Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 08B Page 42


(adds below from FMP, but probably online somewhere!)

Ireland Marriages 1845-1958 Transcription

First name(s) Sarah Anne
Last name Hanley
Registration year 1876
Registration quarter 1876
Registration district Belfast
Volume 16
Page 483

Sarah Anne Hanley married one of these people
William Vint, John White, James M'Cracken
County Antrim, Down


Edits (if below was Hercules from 1851)

White Hercules 1814 1875 1875 Irish Deaths 1864 - 1958 Antrim, Ireland


25 May 1875 - Belfast Telegraph - Belfast, Antrim, Northern Ireland

...inquest at Antrim on Saturday last on the body of a man named Hercules White, of New park, near the town of Antrim, aged 61 years, whose death was caused from the effects of a violent attack on the night of the 12th May, by three men at present unknown. The deceased was accompanying his sons from his house on their way home...

AustinQ - I will do that. She has just found her Dads old paperwork.

Eringobragh 1916- Thank you.

1901 Sandhey Street West Derby

John White Head M 47 Antrim Ireland Cooper
Sarah A White Wife F 51 Antrim Ireland
Samuel White Son M 23 Liverpool, Lancashire
John H White Son M 18 Liverpool, Lancashire
James White Son M 16 Liverpool, Lancashire
George White Son M 13 Liverpool, Lancashire
*** Matilda White Niece F 17 Ireland ****

Deborah, it's lovely to have something to work on! Ask your cousin if there are any other notes in Dad's research- sometimes the tiniest scrap of information can help.

I'm sure Chris will keep looking too. Chris has a knack of finding little hidden treasures on sites that no-one else can find

Thats obsolutely fine, thank you so much. You have no idea how much I appreciate all this, and my dad, bless him.

I'm putting this here so I don't forget to look at this tomorrow:

Matilda's date of birth was 8th September 1883. Couldn't see any marriage for her in Ireland so wondered if she also went to the US or England.

I then found this death record and wondered if it could be her:

Name: Matilda Sinclair
Death Age: 88
Birth Date: 8 Sep 1883
Registration Date: Dec 1971
Registration district: Liverpool
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 10d Page: 807
----------------------------------------------------

I then found her on the 1939 register:

Sinclair Household 37 Devonfield Road , Liverpool C.B., Lancashire, England

John A Sinclair 15 Nov 1878 Male Clerk Cotton Merchant Married
Matilda (O) Sinclair 08 Sep 1883 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married
Norman A Sinclair 08 Apr 1874 Male Clerk (Drugs & Chemist) Single
--------------------------------

And then discovered that she was indeed a White when she married:

First name(s) JOHN ALEXANDER
Last name SINCLAIR
Marriage quarter 3
Marriage year 1906
Spouse: Matilda Orr White
District West Derby
County Lancashire
Volume 8B Page number 746

Unfortunately I can't see the marriage details to see if her father was James. On her marriage she has the middle name Orr- I wonder if these middlenames were given when they were Christened.

Looking on John A Sinclair's military file I can see they married 16th Aug 1906, and had children,
Gertrude May Sinclair 5th Dec 1907
Norman Alexander Sinclair 8th April 1914.
------------------------------------

This is them on the 1911- which confirms that Matilda was born in Antrim:

1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
37 Devonfield Road Walton Liverpool, Walton on the Hill, Lancashire, England

John Alexander Sinclair Head Married Male 32 1879 Lancs Liverpool Commercial Clerk
Matilda Orr Sinclair Wife Married Female 27 1884 Antrim Antrim Resident -
Gertrude May Sinclair Daughter - Female 3 1908 Lancs Litherland
Edna Alexandra Sinclair Daughter - Female 7mths 1911 Lancs Liverpool

Deborah, there's still quite a bit to work out. I've had constant interruptions today, and keep losing track of what I've looked at and what I haven't.

I'm also busy tomorrow morning, but hopefully I'll get a little peace in the afternoon and continue the search. If we keep chipping away, we might get there!

I dont know how you do it, you found more in 2 days that we did in as many months.

Oh- that fits Chris- Theresa's Husband was Thomas Nugent.

United States Naturalization Petitions
First name(s) Thomas
Last name Nugent
Birth year 1886
Birth date 23 Mar 1886
Birth country Ireland
Birth place as transcribed Dungannon, Ireland
Event year 1920
Event type Declaration of intention
Event state Pennsylvania
Event place as transcribed Philadelphia, Pa
Spouse's first name(s) Therese
Spouse's last name Nugent
Relation name Therese
Relationship to applicant Wife

Therese was from Belfast- she married Thomas in Dec 1910- maiden name Muldoon. (Thomas went out to US before Theresa). Can't see any connection to Martha, other than her and Theresa were probably friends living in the same area.

(grief, AQ, you're on form this morning, lol)

FMP has another Pens. Arrival also, above her on list, Theresa Nugent (23, Housewife) and infant Daughter, May, but both her and Martha say, 'None', for 'nearest Relative, in Country from where they came'!, but Belfast was last 'Permanent Residence'. Martha occ. Waitress)

Chris :)

(wishing I had more time here today, lol)

This is her arrival in the US which gives a little more detail:

Pennsylvania, Philadelphia Passenger Lists
name(s) Martha White
Sex Female
Age 26
Birth year 1887
Birth country Itrim Ireland
Last residence: Belfast
Destination: Phila P,A Friends: Mrs Thomas Nugent, Nevada Street
Height 5' 7"
Complexion: Dark
Hair: Dark
Eyes: Blue
Arrival year 1913
Arrival city Philadelphia
Arrival state Pennsylvania
Arrival country United States
Ship name Merion

This is her on the 1930 census- listed as Margaret, but definitely her (In 1940 she is listed as Martha- living with her husband in White Plains, Westchester, New York)

1930 US Census Transcription

City/township Manhattan
County New York
State New York

Connecticut James M Burke Head Male 37 1893 Married
Ireland Margaret Burke Wife Female 35 1895 Married
Wales Thomas Smith Lodger Male 66 1864 Widowed

The census states she she went to the US in 1913.

This is possibly her travelling out there:

State Pennsylvania
name(s) Martha White
Gender Female
Age 26
Birth year 1887
Occupation DOMESTIC
Country of Last Permanent residence: Ireland
Departure 18th June 1913
Departure port Liverpool
Destination port Philadelphia
Destination PHILADELPHIA
Country United States
Destination country United States
Ship name Merion

I wonder if Martha was Frances. Trouble is that my Uncle is no longer here to ask, my cousin is looking through his paperwork to see if there are any more hints.

It is interesting that you say about Martha going to Philadelphia.

OK- the Martha above is correct- she is the sister of the Mary I'm following. This is her Grave which helpfully has her birth date- this matches the date on her birth certificate:

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/82582684/martha-burke

Martha Burke
Birth 28 Mar 1886
Death 15 Feb 1961
Burial Long Island National Cemetery East Farmingdale, Suffolk County, New York, USA
Plot Y 0 3888
---------------------------

Interestingly I believe Martha went to the US in 1913- originally travelling to Philadelphia

It's very hard to follow someone's research when we don't know where the information came from.

On the family I've been following, I did wonder if Mary's sister, Martha went to the US

There is this marriage- her age is a little out from her birth, but that may have been to close the age gap between her and her husband:

Name James M. Burke
Event Type Marriage
Event Date 15 Jun 1929
Event Place Manhattan, New York, New York, United States
Event Place (Original) Manhattan, New York
Gender Male
Age 35
Marital Status Single
Race White
Birth Year (Estimated) 1894
Birthplace Hartford, Conn.
Father's Name John W.
Mother's Name Annie Haflein
Spouse's Name Martha White
Spouse's Gender Female
Spouse's Age 39
Spouse's Marital Status Single
Spouse's Race White
Spouse's Birth Year (Estimated) 1890
Spouse's Birthplace Belfast, Ireland
Spouse's Father's Name James
Spouse's Mother's Name Mary Young

Also, lots of them do not seem to call themselves by their right name.

I know I posted this also before, on 2nd Feb, my cousins Dad (who has now passed) started the family tree many years ago, the old manual way. He made a note somewhere about there being a sister called Frances, who moved to Philidelphia, USA, but this could be nothing.

(that looks very good AQ, with Moore mentioned also)

Chris :)

(don't know if below any help)

https://www.emeraldancestors.com/northern-ireland-ancestry-townland-detail?Townland=Stiles&Parish=Antrim&County=Antrim

That looks promising, it will be fantastic if we can unravel this, it is the only mystery that we have come accross so far, all the other family members were fairly easy to trace. I will print all this off so I can digest it a bit easier.

My Dad is trying to find that photo of Mary Lynn with Lady Guinness, I am sure she was in service to her, she seems to have always been in service.

OK, I've been working through the family of James White and Mary Young

So far we have children:
Female White 1872
Sarah Mcmanus White 1874
Mary White 1876
Margaret White 1879
Ellen Jane White 1879
Matilda White 1883

Their births are posted above.

I've now found another child, which might be of interest as it is the first connection to a Moore Surname:

Martha White
Birth: 28 March 1886
Abode: Styles, Antrim
Father: James White (Dealer)
Mother: Mary WHite (formerly Young)
Informant: Mary Moore of Styles (present at birth)