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There are 5 Ellen Rimmers from 1837 to 1840 born in Ormskirk and non of them have the name Rimmer as mother , so that's confusing

Been trying to get my head around it all, please correct me if not right. So a Jane Rimmer gave birth to a daughter Ellen Rimmer, out of wedlock , this Emma married a Lawrence Gardner, they had a daughter Emma Gardner and she possibly had a son John Thomas out of wedlock at the age of 13 yrs of age. There was no Jane Rimmer with the Rimmer family in 1851 but Emma ,granddaughter age 2 was.. I will try GRO. BMD and see what crops up

1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Turnpike Road, Aughton, Ormskirk, Lancashire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Lawrence Gardner Head - Male 34 1837 - Lancashire, England Transcription
Ellen Gardner Wife - Female 27 1844 - Lancashire, England Transcription
George Tunstall Boarder - Male 82 1789 - Lancashire, England

The above info (if correct) means that Ellen Gardner born 1866 was the granddaughter of Jane Mordaunt (nee Rimmer), but not of John Mordaunt

Possibly Ellen Gardner's parents

Marriage: 25 Apr 1866 St Michael, Aughton, Lancashire, England
Lawrence Gardner - of full age, Wheelwright, Bachelor, Aughton
Ellen Rimmer - of full age, Spinster, Aughton
Groom's Father: Lawrence Gardner, Miller
Witness: John Gardner; Elizabeth Gardner; Henry Aldred
Married by Licence by: W H Boulton Rector
Register: Marriages 1837 - 1899, Page 98, Entry 196
Source: LDS Film 1657556

No father named for the bride, so................

Baptism: 23 Sep 1838 St Michael, Aughton, Lancashire, England
Ellen Rimmer - [Child] of Jane Rimmer, Spinster
Abode: Aughton
Baptised by: W.H.Boulton Rector
Register: Baptisms 1813 - 1842, Page 178, Entry 1419
Source: LDS Film 1657556


1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Hills Lane, Aughton, Ormskirk, Lancashire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
William Rimmer Head Married Male 59 1792 Famrer Haskayne, Lancashire, England Transcription
Rebekah Rimmer Wife Married Female 58 1793 - Lancashire, England Transcription
Mary Rimmer Daughter Unmarried Female 28 1823 Farmer Daughter (Employed At Home) Aughton, Lancashire, England Transcription
John Rimmer Son Unmarried Male 26 1825 Farmers Son (Employed On The Farm Aughton, Lancashire, England Transcription
Thomas Rimmer Son Unmarried Male 24 1827 Farmers Son (Employed On The Farm) Aughton, Lancashire, England Transcription
Rodger Rimmer Son Unmarried Male 24 1827 Farmers Son (Employed On The Farm) Aughton, Lancashire, England Transcription
William Rimmer Son Unmarried Male 21 1830 Farmers Son (Employed On The Farm) Aughton, Lancashire, England Transcription
Ellen Rimmer Grand Daughter - Female 12 1839 Employed At Home Aughton, Lancashire, England Transcription
Joseph Fazakerley Servant - Male 12 1839 Employed On The Farm Aughton, Lancashire, England Transcription
James Sherdon Servant Unmarried Male 21 1830 Employed On The Farm Ireland

1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Fir Lane, Aughton, Ormskirk, Lancashire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
John Mordint Head Married Male 29 1822 Ag Lab Aughton, Lancashire, England Transcription
Jane Mordint Wife Married Female 32 1819 Ag Lab Aughton, Lancashire, England

1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Back Lane, Aughton, Ormskirk, Lancashire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
John Mordaunt Head Married Male 40 1821 Farmer Of 26 Acres Employing 1 Labourer Aughton, Lancashire, England Transcription
Jane Mordaunt Wife Married Female 40 1821 - Aughton, Lancashire, England Transcription
William Mordaunt Son - Male 9 1852 Scholar Aughton, Lancashire, England Transcription
John Mordaunt Son - Male 7 1854 Scholar Aughton, Lancashire, England Transcription
Jane Mordaunt Daughter - Female 5 1856 Scholar Aughton, Lancashire, England Transcription
Rebecca Mordaunt Daughter - Female 2 1859 - Aughton, Lancashire, England Transcription
Thomas Leaver Servant Unmarried Male 28 1833 Carter Prescott, Lancashire, England Transcription
Lucy Gaskell Servant Unmarried Female 18 1843 House Servant Lancashire, England Transcription

Baptism: 16 Oct 1853 St Michael, Aughton, Lancashire, England
John Mordaunt - Son of John Mordaunt & Jane
Abode: Aughton
Occupation: Labourer
Baptised by: WH Boulton Rector
Register: Baptisms 1842 - 1876, Page 63, Entry 501
Source: LDS Film 1657556

Baptism: 13 Apr 1856 St Michael, Aughton, Lancashire, England
Jane Mordaunt - Daughter of John Mordaunt & Jane
Abode: Aughton
Occupation: Farmer
Baptised by: WH Boulton Rector
Register: Baptisms 1842 - 1876, Page 73, Entry 582
Source: LDS Film 1657556

Baptism: 30 May 1858 St Michael, Aughton, Lancashire, England
Rebecca Mordaunt - [Child] of John Mordaunt & Jane
Abode: Aughton
Occupation: Farmer
Baptised by: W.H.Boulton Rector
Register: Baptisms 1842 - 1876, Page 84, Entry 672
Source: LDS Film 1657556

Baptism: 9 Jun 1861 St Michael, Aughton, Lancashire, England
Alice Mordaunt - [Child] of John Mordaunt & Jane
Abode: Aughton
Occupation: Farmer
Baptised by: W.H.Boulton Rector
Register: Baptisms 1842 - 1876, Page 100, Entry 799
Source: LDS Film 1657556

MORDAUNT, ALICE RIMMER Order
GRO Reference: 1861 J Quarter in ORMSKIRK Volume 08B Page 553


GARDNER, ELLEN RIMMER Order
GRO Reference: 1866 S Quarter in ORMSKIRK Volume 08B Page 619 Order

1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Turnpike Road High House, Aughton, Ormskirk, Lancashire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
John Mordaunt Head - Male 47 1824 - Lancashire, England Transcription
Jane Mordaunt Wife - Female 52 1819 - Lancashire, England Transcription
William Mordaunt Son - Male 19 1852 - Lancashire, England Transcription
John Mordaunt Son - Male 17 1854 - Lancashire, England Transcription
Jane Mordaunt Daughter - Female 15 1856 - Lancashire, England Transcription
Rebecca Mordaunt Daughter - Female 12 1859 - Lancashire, England Transcription
Alice Mordaunt Daughter - Female 10 1861 - Lancashire, England Transcription
Ellen Gardner Granddaughter - Female 4 1867 - Lancashire, England Transcription
George Clegg Visitor - Male 13 1858 - Lancashire, England

All born Aughton, except Clegg

Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
GARDNER, JOHN -
GRO Reference: 1888 D Quarter in ORMSKIRK Volume 08B Page 751

No MMN recorded, so his mother was unmarried

Baptism - you're in luck

Baptism: 18 Nov 1888 St Peter and St Paul, Ormskirk, Lancashire, England
John Gardner - [Child] of Ellen Gardner
Abode: Aughton
Occupation: Singlewoman
Notes: Fathers name entered as Robert John and crossed out
Baptised by: JE Woodrow - Vicar
Register: Baptisms 1877 - 1897, Page 274, Entry 2185
Source: LDS Film 1849665

Is it possible to help me track down another family. It is a John Gardner born 1889 Aughton, Ormskirk dist. I have tried finding his parents without any luck. In 1901 he was living in Aughton , states he is 2 yrs old and great grandson to John and Jane Mordaunt, seems they had a few grandchildren in the household including a Ellen Gardner states granddaughter b 1867 so age approx 14 yrs old, I am beginning to wonder if Ellen was the mother of John, if that be the case then she would have only been 13 yrs old when she had him. Found no marriage for a Gardner/Mordaunt, the family all seems a mystery to me. Any help will be appreciated

I have tracked down Emma Charlotte Gladden b 1865 who I didn't know about because she wasn't in with family in 1871, neither was her father John Thomas Gladden. Emma C was listed under the name of Gladding and 1871 was in the household of Charles Allen the younger brother of her mother. She wasn't in the household in 1881 but I see where she was in later census via the posts above

John

Thomas Adams and J. Adams could be the same person ................... J and T in copper plate writing can look almost identical.

I remember looking at the image of those two marriages, adn I honestly would not swear 100% that it was J. Adams or T. Adams!

I have found the following which is interesting. On the 1st marriage of John Thomas Gladden to Mary Ann Holding I see a witness was a Thomas Adams. on the 2nd Marriage to Emma Allen I see a witness was a J. Adams. Finding the marriage of the parents of John Thomas Gladden, John Samuel Gladden married Sarah Adams, so obviously the witnesses in both marriages for John Thomas Gladden were connected in some sort to his mother. John Samuel Gladden, occ. Cabinet Maker on 1841 census

Sorry at delay in getting back, it's been a busy day for me. Wow thank you so much Sylviain for your info, must try and get my head around it all now. I will get the cert for William Henry Gladden as you suggested. I was hoping to find as much as I could about William Henry because his grandson Edward Henry is still alive age 92 but sadly his brother Herbert James died a few days ago age 97 so it's not the right time to bother Edward. They are the sons of Bertie James, son of William Henry and Amelia. Looking at the birth of John Allen father of Frances Allen (Tanner) and Emma Allen (Gladden) he was born in Sheerness Kent the same place where I found Emma Gladden was born

GLADDEN, WILLIAM HENRY ALLEN
GRO Reference: 1870 M Quarter in SAINT SAVIOUR SURREY Volume 01D Page 137

Deaths Jun 1898 (>99%)
Gladden John Thomas 65 St. Saviour 1d 42

Found Emma Charlotte!!

her age on the image is 38, giving birth year of about 1863/64

London, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1931

Name: Emma Charlotte Gladden
Gender: Female
Marriage Age: 29
Record Type: Marriage
Birth Date: abt 1875
Marriage Date: 4 Apr 1904
Marriage Place: Walworth Common, Southwark, England
Father: John Gladden
Spouse: William James Flannery
Register Type: Parish Register

from image:-

Emma
Age 38
Spinster
Occupation:- Domestic Servant
Address:-46 Thurlow Street
Father Occupation:- Cabinet Maker, deceased


??Emma in 1891

1891 Census

Name: Emma C Gladden
Gender: Female
Age: 25
Relationship: Lodger
Birth Year: 1866
Birth Place: Southwark, London, England
Civil Parish: Newington St Mary
Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints St Stephens
Residence Place: London City, Newington St Mary, London, England
Registration district: St Saviour Southwark
Sub registration district: St Peter Walworth
ED, Institution or Vessel: 18a

Piece: 359
Folio: 24

Henry L Bergamin 31
Emma L Bergamin 25
Emma E Bergamin 4
Henry S Bergamin 3
William E Bergamin 1
Edward P Clark 15
Gertrude Beatrice Clark 42
Sarah J Slaughter 28
Emma C Gladden 25 Single, Mantle Maker

Address:- 29 Mann St


??? 1901 Census

Name: Emma C Gladden
Age: 36
Estimated birth year: abt 1865
Relation to Head: Sister
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Christchurch, London, England
Civil Parish: Lambeth
Search Photos: Search for 'Lambeth' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
Ecclesiastical parish: St James Kennington
County/Island: London
Country: England

Registration district: Lambeth
Sub-registration district: Kennington First
ED, institution, or vessel: 03

Piece: 412
Folio: 60
Page Number: 16
Household schedule number: 120

Fanny M Parsons 23
Winifred E Parsons 3
Emma C Gladden 36 Domestic

Address:- 31 Princes Square

London, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1916

Name: Charles John Gladden
Gender: Male
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 12 Jul 1863
Baptism Place: Lambeth St John the Evangelist, Lambeth, England
Father: John Gladden
Mother: Emma Gladden
Register Type: Parish Registers

from image:-

Born 31 May 1863
Address:- London Road
Father occupation:- Cabinet Maker


Name: Emma Charlotte Gladden
Gender: Female
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 3 Sep 1865
Baptism Place: Lambeth St John the Evangelist, Lambeth, England
Father: John Thomas Gladden
Mother: Emma Gladden
Register Type: Parish Registers

from image:-
Born 5 Aug 1865
Address:- Borough Road
Father occupation:- Cabinet Maker


Name: George Thomas Gladden
Gender: Male
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 15 Sep 1867
Baptism Place: Walworth St Peter, Southwark, England
Father: John Thomas Gladden
Mother: Emma Gladden
Register Type: Parish Registers

from image:-
Born Aug 22 `1867
Address:- 11 Narriot (??) Road, Camberwell
Father occupation:- Cabinet Maker


I cannot find a baptism for William Henry

I also cannot find what happened to Emma Charlotte

???? death of John Thomas' first wife, as Ann?????

GLADDEN, ANN 32
GRO Reference: 1856 S Quarter in BETHNAL GREEN Volume 01C Page 167


??? Emma's death

GLADDEN, EMMA 50
GRO Reference: 1878 D Quarter in BETHNAL GREEN Volume 01C Page 153