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Have this Church Baptism record for Mary Frances Fleming 1893-

https://imgur.com/a/0VFWO

The horror I see there is a serious conflict in Mary Frances Fleming date of birth. Ok I'm going to check her 1939 census date of birth and see where this leads.

Laird..Have been chasing around and am still not sure about who is who...

The MC for James Fleming and Mary Brown had James signing his name but the one for marrying Mary Lynch has his" Mark"..the signatures for both Mary Brown and Mary Lynch are identical..Thought at first Father Ryan had filled them in but they are not witnessed as is Michael Halloran (witness to James and Mary.Brown')...
Somewhere the Halloran family are connected to both as Mary Halloran was present at the Birth of John Christopher Brown Fleming 1892 and the bros.Michael and Thom.were witnessess' on both wedding certs.

OK, I'll be finishing for the night shortly so a couple of points to think on for tomorrow

The 1939 register has Mary Frances Fleming (Nelson) date of birth as 17th August 1893, but the birth certificate gives a birth date of 27th September 1893. Are you certain she was born Ireland?

I don't think you have the correct birth for Mary Lynch- her father on her marriage is listed as a tailor, the father on that birth that you posted the link for is listed as a farm labourer.

This seems more likely parents:

1901
Residents of a house 46.1 in Whitegate (Corkbeg, Cork)

Lynch Jeremiah 62 Male Head of Family Roman Catholic Co Cork Tailor Married
Lynch Cathrine 64 Female Wife Roman Catholic Co Cork -Married Deaf
-----------------------------------

Possible baptism- haven't found birth yet:

Name: Mary Lynch
Baptism Age: 0
Event Type: Baptism
Birth Date: 1869
Baptism Date: 31 Jan 1869
Baptism Place: Aghada, Cork, Ireland
Diocese: Cloyne
Father: Jeremiah Lynch
Mother: Catherine Stele

If you have the correct birth certificate for Mary Fleming, then she knocked a year off her age when she married.

I've back tracked over my existing records, I can see that on my great grandmothers marriage license she's definitely Mary Frances Fleming and father listed as deceased James Fleming (Rigger at Ship Yard). Mary Frances Fleming also definitely has as we have noted a birth record to James Fleming and Mary Lynch so I think Fleming/Lynch is the right branch.

Oh dear this is rather confusing these families are similar, same area, same names......they almost sound related?

There is something a little odd!

As Erin said have you checked out the 1887 marriage to Mary Browne?

Marriage: 22nd September 1887

James Fleming- Bachelor, Seaman- Whitegate, father: John Fleming, seaman

Mary Browne - Spinster- Lower Aghada. ftaher: Thomas Browne, seaman

(Mary signs Minnie)

Witnesses: Michael Halloran & Alice Neil.
-------------------------------

They have a child, James, in 1897:

Birth: 23rd May 1897

James Fleming

Father: James Fleming- Seaman, Aghada
Mother: Mary Browne
----------------------------

So the above death is likely for this James- but the details are very similar to your James. (This James and Mary (Browne) also lose their son John, in April 1897)

I'm a bit confused by how similar these are- I'll keep looking

NOOO- something's not right, Hold on

Ah brilliant thanks for finding that!

Erin mentioned the last child born was likely Jeremiah in 1896.

Perhaps the were no more children because James had died?

Death:

Name JAMES FLEMING
Married
Occupation: Seaman
Abode: Aghada
Deceased Age at Death 39
Year of Death 1897
Date of death: 17th May 1897
Informant: Mary Fleming (Widow of Deceased- present at death)

Group Registration ID 4184468
SR District/Reg Area Middleton
-----------------------------------

I have to pop out. I'll take another look later

Other thoughts, I believe in Ireland at that time you had to be legally 21 to marry. Assuming 1891 - 21 as the full age that does suggest the 1868 birth of James Fleming has some additional validity. I assume both would have to be 21 so Mary Lynch would likely have to have been born about 1870/1.

I'm pretty sure mimi or minnie are nicknames variants of Mary?

Yes I found that but Cannot see them on 1901/1911 although Mary Lynch did sign her MC as Minnie (as did Mary Browne..!)

I'm starting to think that James Fleming and wife Mary formerly Lynch perhaps did not leave Ireland at all but rather their daughter did. Mary Frances Fleming born 1893. Found their daughters birth record this morning 1893 Mary Fleming record adds middle name Frances parents James Fleming and Mary Fleming formerly Lynch address Middleton......so definitely the correct record :-)

Hi Eringobragh1916 the name Jeremiah seems consistent. I believe Mary Lynch father was Jeremiah Lynch.

Laird...Bit of a puzzle here !

Check out the Marriage and subsequent childrens' Births for this couple...Note signatures on MC and witnessess'


Party 1 Name
JAMES FLEMING

Party 2 Name
MARY BROWNE

Date of Event
22 September 1887

Group Registration ID
2432043

SR District/Reg Area
Middleton

The last birth in Co Cork I can see for James and Mary (Lynch) is Jeremiah b Sept 1896.

hmmmm just went onto the Irish Genealogy site and thought i'd try a broad sweep 1895-1928 and see there was 156 James Fleming deaths in that time period.

So sometime after their marriage in 1891 James & Mary moved from Ireland to England I think? Is there enough information here to track down where they ended up?

There's a definite maritime feel to the Fleming side that I can see from these records. I can see from my great grandmother Mary Frances Fleming marriage certificate that James was listed as deceased trade Rigger at a Shipyard.

See- https://imgur.com/a/3I3oh