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AustinQ can i give you a hand painting the door......i have a feeling it'll be easier than finding these Flemings :-)

Lol, Yes- well, first coat done. That's quite enough exertion for one week :)

(but nice to know you're keeping me on my toes!)

Have you got that door painted yet !!!!

Civil registration of births did not start until 1864- it's possible that James' birth was before this time, or, like Mary's was not registered.

Interestingly on his marriage James describes himself as a 'seaman' and his father as a 'sailor'- so there is some difference in their occupations, although I don't think 'sailor' necessarily means fisherman as you have described above.

Looking at possible deaths for his father in Middleton- there are a few, some I cannot see the details for. However, it might be worth considering:

Death of James Fleming in Middleton aged 57 in 1889

Death of James Fleming in Middleton, a boatman, residence Whitegate, aged 55 in 1880. Informant: Mary Fleming of Whitegate present at death.

Death of James Fleming in Middleton aged 50 in 1872
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I think it would be best to sort out the different Fleming families in Whitegate, to at least eliminate some. Explore every possible- I'm not sure this is going to be an easy one.

For example, there is a Catherine Fleming, widow of seaman, of Whitegate died 1896 aged 83. Informant Mary Halloran of Whitegate.

There's an article in Cork Examiner 30 March 1903 re a Mary Fleming aged 60 who lives alone in Whitegate, She was acting strangely, intending to harm herself. She was committed to Cork Lunatic asylum- the article states she had two sons that were sailors.

Possibly her in 1901?

Residents of a house 51 in Whitegate (Corkbeg, Cork)
Fleming Mary 55 Female Head of Family Roman Catholic County Cork Widow
---------------------------------------

There are a couple of James Fleming from Whitegate on the 1861 census aboard ships. One born 1830 unmarried, and this one:

1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
British Ships in Home Ports, Ships and Overseas Establishments

First name(s) James
Last name Flamming
Relationship -
Marital status Married
Sex Male
Age 29
Birth year 1832
Occupation A B
Birth town as transcribed CORK WHITEGATE
County British Ships in Home Ports
Country Ships and Overseas Establishments
Vessel name St Vincent

I've looked again on Irish Roots for other James Fleming possibilities
I found a James Fleming born in Middleton, Cork but in 1872 so have dismissed that one. The one in Waterford seems likely because I noticed the father had the correct name and also was listed as a fisherman......at this stage perhaps just an educated guess. Agreed it's not a substantial connection :-)

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_q=james%20fleming%20cork&_hb=tna&_col=200

(I got the wrong one above earlier AQ (1850) but a possible for his Father...)

Notes 1911 says Merchant Service, also for his Lodgers (but not seeing on Merchant FMP)

(1901 Sailor (Seas written on image)

Chris :)

Edits (should have looked at below FMP, lol, one for 1864, image not opening yet!)

Ireland Merchant Navy Crew Lists 1863-1921

First name(s) Joseph
Last name Fleming
Birth year 1864
Birth date ? ? 1864
Birthplace LPool
Year 1884
Vessel name Pochard
Vessel official number 84462
Vessel registry port Cork

(no, perhaps not, checked image, does say LPool for Birthplace, was his 'starting point' Fman (presume Fireman)

So that seems to be Mary Lynch's family sorted.

Now, James Fleming- I don't think you have the correct birth. The link you gave on page one gives his birth in 1868 Waterford. Not sure why you think he was born there?
----------------------------------

What we know:

When he married in 1891 he was full age, living Whitegate and father listed as James Fleming Sailor. Witnesses were Thomas Halloran and Margaret Fleming

In 1901 he is listed as 35 from Whitegate, Cork Ireland (rough date of birth 1866)

In 1911 he is listed as 47 from Ireland (rough date of birth 1864)

Yes, Mary's brother, James, died 1921- there's a report into the death Londonderry Sentinel 04 June 1921.

Her brother Frank/ Francis died in 1911- accidentally drowned having fallen out of a rowing boat on his way from Queenstown to Whitegate.

This is his wife Hannah in 1911:

Residents of a house 99 in Whitegate Town (Corkbeg, Cork)
Sliney Joseph 65 Male Head of Family Roman Catholic Whitegate Co Cork Navy Pensioner Widower
Lynch Annie 30 Female Daughter Roman Catholic Whitegate Co Cork Widow
Sliney Daisy 20 Female Niece Roman Catholic Kinsoll Co Cork Single

James Fleming
1868–
BIRTH 28 JUL 1868 • Waterford, Ireland
DEATH Unknown (probably in Wales?)
2nd great-grandfather

Mary Lynch
1869–1915
BIRTH 1869 • Cork, Ireland
DEATH 1915 • Newport, Wales
2nd great-grandmother

AustinQ have copied that info across regarding the siblings to my ancestry tree.

OMG i just realised on my great great grandparents mariage license their respective fathers are not both Sailors, one is actually a tailor haha.....they looked the same to me until AustinQ actually mentioned it.

Eringobragh1916 if i have this right-

James LYNCH Year of Death 1921......this is a brother of my great great grandmother Mary Lynch?

Laird....

Check the following...


Name
James LYNCH

Year of Death
1921

Group Registration ID
3386654

SR District/Reg Area
Middleton

Deceased Age at Death
50

Can let you have exact details if you want by PM but wont post them on here....

Yes Laird- pretty certain on that Mary.

None of the births appear to be registered on irishgenealogy.ie, but all have baptism records.

On her marriage she states father was Jeremiah, a tailor.

Her brother James, baptised December 1870 also lists his father as Jeremiah, a tailor, on his marriage to Bridget Murphy in 1898- witnesses were Hannah Sliney and Frank Lynch.

Brother, Frank (Francis) Lynch and Hannah Sliney (who witnessed above marriage, married in 1907. Francis also lists his father as Jeremiah, a tailor.

All give Whitegate as their address.

Name: Mary Lynch
Birth Date: 1869
Baptism Date: 31 Jan 1869
Baptism Place: Aghada, Cork, Ireland
Diocese: Cloyne
Father: Jeremiah Lynch
Mother: Catherine Stele


Are you sure on this one I looked on Irish Genealogy and there was only 5 Mary Lynch recorded for that year in Cork and the above was not recorded. See-

https://tinyurl.com/yaaqzgwn

Yes, I think I'm done for a bit, I'm going round in circles with this one!

I got a door that needs painting!

(apologies AQ, just seen you, I was checking GRO)

(got as far as below)


Edits (beginning to think duster and polish tin looking at me here, looks more inviting, lol lol)

Chris :)

Birth
WILLIAMS, CASSANDRIA ELIZABETH (LYNCH)
GRO Reference: 1890 D Quarter in CARDIFF Volume 11A Page 259

WILLIAMS, GEORGE LEOPOLD (LYNCH)
GRO Reference: 1901 M Quarter in CARDIFF Volume 11A Page 361

It's not that one Chris- I found her in 1911 still with her brother (unless she was entered twice?). Give me a minute to find it again.
----------------------------------------------------

I think that one on the 1901 is this Mary in 1911:

1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
20 Madras St Grangetown Cardiff, Cardiff, Glamorganshire, Wales

John Lynch Head Married Male 40 1871 Youghal County Cork Labourer Dock
Margaret Ann Lynch Wife Married Female 38 1873 Cardiff Glam -
Jeremiah Lynch Son Single Male 18 1893 Cardiff Glam Porter Shop
Mary Ellen Lynch Daughter Single Female 16 1895 Cardiff Glam -
John Lynch Son - Male 9 1902 Cardiff Glam School
Charles William Lynch Son - Male 7 1904 Cardiff Glam School

Marriage for Francis:

Marriage: 5th September 1907
Aghada, Middleton

Francis Lynch, full age, bachelor, sailor, Whitegate
Father: Jeremiah Lynch, tailor (Alive)

Hannah Sliney, full age, spinster, Whitegate
Father: JosephSliney

Witnesses: Arthur O'Keiff & Alice Wall

Looking at 1911 image, wondered if below was Cousin Mary Lynch (says Born Cardiff 1911)

Chris :)

(FMP seem to have Birtplaces on left)

1901
Canada Charles Williams Head Married Male 58 1843 Dock Labourer
Ireland Elizabeth Williams Wife Married Female 36 1865 -
Cardiff, Glamorganshire, Wales Cassandree Williams Daughter Single Female 11 1890 -
Cardiff, Glamorganshire, Wales John Williams Son Single Male 9 1892 -
Cardiff, Glamorganshire, Wales Mary Williams Daughter Single Female 6 1895 -
Cardiff, Glamorganshire, Wales Charles T Williams Son Single Male 4 1897 -
Cardiff, Glamorganshire, Wales George L Williams Son Single Male 0 1901 -
Cardiff, Glamorganshire, Wales Jeremiah Lynch Cousin Single Male 9 1892 -
Cardiff, Glamorganshire, Wales Mary Lynch Cousin Single Female 6 1895
7, Sandon Place, Cardiff, St John, Glamorganshire


Edits (thankyou Egb, not got Irish knowledge!, have now noticed 1911 says Merchant for Seaman)

Ah interesting I've obviously printed off the wrong Mary Lynch as my great great grandmother. I had 1871 mothers maiden name Mary Creedon. I will update my tree shortly. Thanks for the correction. I doubt it will be the last :-)