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Perhaps I've not been keeping up or have missed earlier posts.

The marriage cert states that Richard and Mary Frances married in 1928
Were they together for some time before they married?

The ages of the children listed on The Gordon Boy's home suggests that some of them were born up to 8yrs before 1928
The doc is dated 1938

Eldest son is 18yrs ...(1939 register states b 10 Jul 1920)
Even the child on the document John Bernard, was born in 1923


Something else I thought about.
The 1960's photo of the "Minnie Lady"
Even although she is much younger, she does look very much like Mary Frances from the other photo dated Newport 1954.

Is this birth possible?
Minnie Fleming
Mother's Maiden Name: Fleming
Registration Year: 1914
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration district: Hartlepool

Very excited, just received about 50 pages of info about one of Mary Frances & Richard Henry's children.....this will require some study :-)

https://imgur.com/a/TFIt2

https://imgur.com/a/AWWPz

Area - CORK & ROSS (RC) , Parish/Church/Congregation - COURCY'S COUNTRY OR BALLINSPITTAL
Baptism of JAMES FLEMING of N/R on 27 August 1865

Name JAMES FLEMING
Date of Birth N/R N/R N/R
Address N/R
Father JAMES FLEMING
Mother JULIA LINCHAN

Thought this one interesting correct father's name, Cork County about the right date of birth, actually it was the only record that matched in that regard.....the mother's name is new info.

https://imgur.com/a/exlE0

I must confess i'm staring at these 30 Christening records thinking i need some sort of reference point.....ok what do i know? I know My great great grandfather James Fleming father was also called James Fleming, I know his father's profession was 'Sailor', I know my great great grandfather James Frizzell married in County Cork, his daughter Mary Frances Fleming was also born in Cork, as was his wife.....educated guess James Fleming also is likely from Cork, but hey i think he already confirmed this on the Newport census. So i'm starting to see pieces of the jigsaw :-)

Am I really bad at this or am i starting to understand the process? :-)

Eringobragh1916 ok brill i see i have 30 christening records to work through for James Fleming :-)

https://goo.gl/9eWhMz

Eringobragh1916 thank you for having a look, i'm going to check christening records now. Looking through old photos and found this fascinating old photo of my grandmother Emily Nelson with her mother Mary Frances Nelson/Fleming. I can confirm that after asking my mother Christine she asked her older sister Clarice and she said that their grandmother Mary Frances Fleming was indeed referred to as Fanny.

https://imgur.com/a/Sj5ly

Photo of Mary Frances Nelson's daughter and her family-

https://imgur.com/a/Enxk4

Have trawled through Parish Registers from 1861....Don't ever want to see another Lynch surname again !!!!!

This may be a possibility for James Fleming's family although so far not found him but eyes are getting tired so will put this on for now...

1870...


Name
ELIZA FLEMING

Date of Birth
1870

Group Registration ID
7403482

SR District/Reg Area
Middleton

Sex
N/R

Mother's Birth Surname
Frances Devine

Father James Fleming Naval Pensioner.

Godparents..John Fleming and Kate Prior.

A John Fleming was born to James and Frances 15 August 1861

Laird...At the end of the day we are working "Blind" as only you know the actual backround of your family...!

Have you searched through the actual Aghada Baptismal records for a James Fleming...?

Going back to Francis Lynch bro.to Mary Lynch Fleming..his widow Hannah Sline Lynch re married Jan 1919 to Charles O'Keefe Sailor of Whitegate,

AustinQ aye that's most perplexing, you could well be right. Having researched both my grandmothers I see both had been married several times, they had no luck with men. I wouldn't be surprised if Mary Frances Fleming had a previous husband before Richard Henry Nelson......that may explain why my grandmother Emily Nelson was born out of wedlock.

Did we get to the bottom of why Mary and Mr Nelson didn't marry until 1928- when their first child was born 1920?

There has to be a reason for this- it just wasn't the 'done thing'.

Something to think about-

Perhaps Mary was already married? This would be a good reason for her to not stay in the Newport area and to also have children without being wed to their father.

Possible marriage:

Marriage:
name(s): MARY F FLEMING
Marriage quarter 2
Marriage year 1914
Spouse name: Daniel Smith
District Newport (Monmouthshire)
County Monmouthshire
Country Wales
Volume 11A Page number 617

A possible daughter born 1915:

Birth:
name(s) MARY A SMITH
Birth year 1915
Birth quarter 2
Mother's last name Fleming
District Newport (Monmouthshire)
County Monmouthshire
Country Wales
Volume 11A Page 549

So, is this the 'Minnie' that was close to your Nanna Emily?- a half sister?

I have to go, I'm being shouted at!

I'm out tonight, but I'm hoping to come back to this over the weekend. I've had a thought that I want to follow up on.

Ok I need to update James Fleming tonight, i think, i'll just put his birth as abt. 1865, birth likely Whitegate, Cork, Ireland. I think that was what the Newport census suggested.......i'll back track now :-)

Eringobragh1916 yes i'm discovering that.....just when i thought it was a done deal i realise i've missed some obvious clue.

That's why its great that i have all you great people correcting mistakes and ensuring i don't re-write my own history with the wrong relations.

hahaha OMG the Frizzells still give me goosebumps, another Irish saga :-)

(Nooo!!, don't even go there, lol, a name never to forget that one!)

Chris :)

Don't forget the Frizzells !!!...That was a saga and a half as well..

https://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1361411?d=desc

(been there before Nelsons, all of us, lol, above a 'refresher')

Chris :)

Laird...Never assume anything....I am still pondering on why James who came from the backround he did ended up as a "Rigger" in Newport .

I think Mary Frances Fleming ended up in Stockton because that was the home of her husband Richard Henry Nelson. I see he moved about a bit, I presume he must have bumped into Mary on his travels and rest is history as they say :-)

Hehe- can you wallpaper too? :-D

Laird, why did Mary end up in Stockton on Tees?