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Just to add, did look around previously, things James/Swansea, he could well be another one that's about there!, see 1901/1911 (wife Bridget Crowe. Married 1901) her Death there 1922.

Chris :)

If the latter is the case then clearly Mary Frances Fleming was being untruthful with information on her marriage license to Richard Henry Nelson in 1928.

Think I'll write to the GRO for confirmation of those two doc's, there is also a death for James Fleming in Wales Swansea 1930 age 68 birth 1862 that one I suspect is my great great grandfather.

Yes Sorry Laird if I didn't make it clear.

I've just been reading the information you uploaded on James Bernard- what a fantastic record to have.

Ahhhh-

The extended Pilot covers PDF copies of those historical digitised civil registration records held by GRO (i.e. birth entries from 1837 - 1917 and death entries from 1837 - 1957). A GRO index reference is required to be provided with the application. You can find the GRO index references by logging on to the GRO online ordering service and accessing the GRO online indexes. A PDF will cost £6.00 each.

So the pilot does not include marriage licenses...

Ok what am i doing wrong i tried to order the above PDF and can't do it...

Marriage:
name(s): MARY F FLEMING
Marriage quarter 2
Marriage year 1914
Spouse name: Daniel Smith
District Newport (Monmouthshire)
County Monmouthshire
Country Wales
Volume 11A Page number 617

A possible daughter born 1915:

Birth:
name(s) MARY A SMITH
Birth year 1915
Birth quarter 2
Mother's last name Fleming
District Newport (Monmouthshire)
County Monmouthshire
Country Wales
Volume 11A Page 549


Ok this has to be true, will try and order the pdf tonight

I had always hoped i'd find a photo of Richard Henry Nelson and wife Mary Frances Fleming but of my 4 great grandparents I've been unsuccessful finding a couple photo for these two. It's funny we almost take photos for granted now but step back 3 or 4 generations and photos were a much more special occasion.

When i made contact with James Bernard Nelson's son last year he mentioned that Richard Henry Nelson was described as a bit of a hard man. From all my research there appears to be only one photo in existence of this particular great grandfather of mine.

https://imgur.com/a/RRx7r

Wonder who Buller Nelson was, lol...(Wellington Street, Stockton being discussed on below!)

(might be 'Buller' from Boiler!, more lol)


https://picturestocktonarchive.wordpress.com/2014/12/03/wellington-street-c1985-3/

Chris :)

Britain, Trade Union membership registers Transcription (Find My Past)

First name(s) Richard Henry
Last name Nelson
Admission year 1914
Age 21
Trade Boilermakers & Iron Shipbuilders
Union name United Society Of Boilermakers & Iron Shipbuilders
Union branch Stockton 1
Union branch as transcribed Stockton 1
County Durham

Finally uploaded a fascinating piece of the Nelson/Fleming history-

https://imgur.com/a/MNjly

Finally finished digitising the 57 pages of the Gordon Boy's Home records. I shall try and upload it somewhere.

As in my post on page 4, I think this could be Minnie- possible daughter of Mary F Fleming and Daniel Smith:

Birth:
name(s) MARY A SMITH
Birth year 1915
Birth quarter 2
Mother's last name Fleming
District Newport (Monmouthshire)
County Monmouthshire
Country Wales
Volume 11A Page 549

I think in order to work back accurately with Mary F Fleming's family you need to sort these more recent events first. If Mary F was previously married, she didn't declare it on her marriage certificate to Mr Nelson.

The GRO pdf pilot is still running and digital copies of birth certificates can be ordered for £6.

GlasgowLass- Something else I thought about.
The 1960's photo of the "Minnie Lady"
Even although she is much younger, she does look very much like Mary Frances from the other photo dated Newport 1954.

Is this birth possible?
Minnie Fleming
Mother's Maiden Name: Fleming
Registration Year: 1914
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration district: Hartlepool

Just asked my mother, she said that Minnie was my grandmother Emily Nelson's half sister which does add some validation to AustinQ statement that perhaps Mary Frances Fleming was married previously before Richard Henry Nelson......was that the reason why it took them sometime to marry I wonder? Perhaps they had to wait until her pevious marriage was legally dissolved?

Well I spent a good hour reading through all the pages today from the Gordon Boy's Home, whow what a fascinating insight into the Nelsons and the 1930's. Clearly some drama going on here. I must scan all these pages and put them onto my tree for posterity. The 1914 marriage certificate for Mary F Fleming and Daniel Smith now that is intriguing.....must be worth some further investigation.

AustinQ Yes lots of family gaps on my tree, i'm slowly getting there inputting stuff but i'm working at it and Nelson part has been neglected and is only now something i'm trying to get on top off. I have a public tree on ancestry.co.uk where i've added photos. Tree Laird Bloxham-Simms.

GlasgowLass will ask about that photo of Minnie and try and find out who she is. The Nelson family seemed to be going through a rough patch in the 1930's. There has to be a connection between Minne and Mary Frances.

OK- something else bugging me.

On your tree (on Ancestry) Laird you don't have some of Richard and Mary Frances children listed- is there a reason for this.

There appear to be possibly 8 children:

George Died 1923 - that leaves 7
-------------------------------------

On the 1939 there are possibly 5 children with Richard and Mary- so that leaves 2 that are elsewhere in 1939:

1939: Nelson Household (7 People) 36 Wellington Street , Stockton R.D., Durham, England

Richard H Nelson 13 Oct 1895 Male Boiler Maker Married
Mary F Nelson 17 Aug 1893 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married
Richard H Nelson 10 Jul 1920 Male General Labourer Single
Sorry, this record is officially closed.
Sorry, this record is officially closed.
Sorry, this record is officially closed.
Lawrence Nelson 07 Nov 1934 Male At School Single
-------------------------------------

I notice Thomas isn't mention on record you have the to (for James Bernard).

So where is Thomas?

Is this him in 1939:

Household 26 Fraser Avenue , Preston R.D., Lancashire, England

Sorry, this record is officially closed.
Constance M Langhorn 26 May 1912 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married
Mary I Langhorn 14 Jun 1870 Female Incapacitated Single
Annie Fle?ng 27 Nov 1886 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Widowed
Thomas Harold Nelson 29 Jul 1933 Male At School Single

Annie and Thomas are crossed out- Thomas re-entered at the bottom of the page with the same details.

So who is Annie Fle?ing born 1886??
-------------------------

Thomas death:

First name(s) THOMAS HAROLD
Last name NELSON
Gender Male
Birth day 29 July 1933
Death quarter 1
Death year 1998
District Middlesbrough
District number 3481C
Register number C4A
Entry number 202
Date of registration mm/yy 0398
County Yorkshire

Is this Thomas the child of Richard and Mary?

I have to cook dinner, I'll try and pop back later.

EDIT: I've just noticed that all the other children are born Stockton, but Thomas H is born Sunderland. I don't see another Nelson/ Fleming marriage for the correct time, but perhaps he isn't a sibling?

Laird- is there anyone in the family that could tell you a little more about the Minnie that was close to your Grandmother, Emily?

I have seen this once before where a couple had children in the 1920's and early 1930's then, marry in the late 1930's.

I know that the Impending WW2 was the reason for my relative marrying the father of her children in early 1939

I tend to agree.
Need to fill gaps on Mary Frances from 1911 to 1920

GL- I had the same thoughts re the photos

Yes GlasgowLass- see my post on page 4 (19 Jan 2018 18:09).

If this were my family I think my first priority would be to sort why they didn't marry until later. (I feel there must be a reason) I'd be very tempted to get the 1914 marriage certificate for Mary F Fleming and Daniel Smith.

If it is the correct Mary Fleming, it might also provide extra clues re father/ witneses etc.