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Laird,
I was revisiting your tree today ( I forgot you gave me access) and note that there are quite a few things missing from your Frizzels in Greenock.

Back in Aug 2015, I looked at multiple records for your family in Greenock and put it all on your thread.
That thread seems to have been deleted?

Your GR tree starts with Hugh Frizzell and Ann Wilson who married in Ballymoney in 1858
There is no further info on your tree re this couple apart from their marriage date and place

Ann Frizzell other name Wilson died in Greenock in 1869
she was 33yrs old (BC1833) and her mother's maiden name was Lafferty

If I recall correctly, her widower was the 39yr old Hugh Frizzell who died in Greenock in 1879.
His parent names will be listed on this cert.

The other omission is their children's birth places.
Whilst James, Jane and Hugh were all born in Ireland, the younger ones named Ann, Margaret and Agnes were all born in Greenock
I looked at these Scottish birth records at the time
This is where the marriage info on Hugh and Ann came from.
It's recorded on the birth certs


We worked out that this family were in Ireland at 1863
( birth of son Hugh) but were in Greenock by 1865 ( birth of daughter Ann)

What happened to the info?
I may have destroyed my original notes.
Did you print it off?

So awaiting some documents from the GRO but what I can piece together so far is-

My great grandmother Mary Frances Fleming of Cork married Richard Henry Nelson of Stockton.

Richard Henry Nelson seems to be from several generations from Stockton so pretty easy to research this chap.

Mary Frances Fleming, the Irish dilemma, her parents James Fleming & Mary (Minnie) Lynch also from Cork. They married in 1891. They had one other child Jeremiah but he died as an infant. They moved to Wales, specifically Newport as they appear on the 1901 & 1911 census and looks like several relatives joined them at one time or other.

My great grandmother Mary Frances Fleming (Fanny) appears to have married after 1911 probably to a Mr Smith although I can't confirm this yet until the relevant records turn up from the GRO and has a child Mary (Minnie). This marriage some how comes to an end and then she ends up in Stockton living with my great grandfather Richard Henry Nelson who she eventually marries in 1928.

Reading through this incredible thread which i will read and re-read there are several extensions which I need to add as footnotes and additional branches to my tree. I got some work to do here!

James Fleming death record still tbc but a wealth of facts uncovered.

Think we are back a generation from what I have sort of tried to fathom out...

Bridget Lynch's father Michael was a TAILOR...he was married to Kate Dhuig..

Children of Michael and Kate included Jerimiah who married Cath.Steele.

Another curveball.

There is also a 45yr old widower named Michael Lynch with place of birth Whitegate, Cork who is found in Newport at 1911

1911
18 St Michael St, Newport, Monmouthshire

Michael Lynch 45 Seaman, Merchant Service, Widower, b Whitegate, Cork
May Lynch 18 Daughter b Queenstown, Cork

May signed the 1911 return

Probably extended Branch of the Lynchs'..told you they were everywhere..!!

Bridget and Maurice's Marriage....

Witnesses..Thom.Callaghan and Patrick Lynch

Maurice Connors

mentioned in the record of Maurice Connors and Bridget Lynch






Name Maurice Connors
Spouse's Name Bridget Lynch
Event Date 13 Jun 1868
Event Place Aghada, Cork, Ireland
Father's Name Maurice Connors
Spouse's Father's Name Michael Lynch ********

You guys are amazing, can't wait to get the certificates I've ordered from the GRO.

OK- found the cousin connection with that Gladys May Connors- it's through the Lynch side- and that is Gladys (May) above with her family in 1891.

This is her sister's birth in Ireland:

Name ELLEN CONNOR
Date of Birth 14th January 1872
Address: Whitegate
Father: Maurice Connor (Carrier)
Mother: Bridget Connor (formerly Lynch)
Group Registration ID 11925938
SR District/Reg Area Middleton

(it's a shame this didn't catch the eye of Jude (HeyJudeB4Beatles) she is the one for things Newport relating)

Chris :)

(not seeing a lot FMP Monmouthshire, Baptism or School for that Gladys May)

Wondering if this is Gladys May Connors with her family- parents from Cork- later listed as O'connors:

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Shop Row, Llanvihangel Llantarnam, Newport, Monmouthshire, Wales

Morris Conners Head Married Male 51 1840 Ireland Cork General Labourer
Bridget Conners Wife Married Female 40 1851 Ireland Cork-
Ellen Conners Daughter Single Female 19 1872 Ireland Cork-
May Conners Daughter Single Female 9 1882 Monmouthshire, Wales -
William Conners Son Single Male 7 1884 Monmouthshire, Wales Scholar
John Conners Son Single Male 0 1891 Monmouthshire, Wales
--------------------------

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
99, Hewertson Street, Newport, Monmouthshire, Wales

Morris O'Connors Head Widower Male 60 1841 Ireland General Labourer To Corporation
William O'Connors Son Single Male 16 1885 Newport, Monmouthshire, Wales General Labourer At Glass Works

The Frizzell's et al have nothing on this lot...!

Laird ..Why don't you get Mary's (Minnie) Death Cert. it will at least give you an idea of who Reg.Death etc.

OK, I'm returning back to the 1911 census- looking at Gladys, listed as cousin.

Gladys Griffiths Cousin Single Female 10 1901 Newport School

I've found out who Gladys Griffiths is- but haven't sorted the cousin connection yet- I'm working on it.

Birth:
GRIFFITHS, GLADYS MAY (mother's maiden name: CONNORS)
GRO Reference: 1901 J Quarter in NEWPORT MON Volume 11A Page 220

She was born 17th March 1901 to Frederick John Griffiths and Gladys May Connors.

This is her parents in 1901 & 1911:

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
98, Alma Street, Newport, Monmouthshire, Wales

Frederick J Griffiths Head Married Male 24 1877 Hereford, Herefordshire, England Deal Carrier
Transcription
Gladys Griffiths Wife Married Female 23 1878 Newport, Monmouthshire, Wales -
Transcription
May Griffiths Daughter - Female 0 1901 Newport, Monmouthshire, Wales
----------------------------------------------------

1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
114 York Road Bedminster, Bristol, Gloucestershire, England

Alfred Perrett Head Married Male 53 1858 Bristol General Dealer
Eliza Perrett Wife Married Female 55 1856 Chepstow Mon Monthley Nurse
Lilly Perrett Daughter Single Female 24 1887 Bristol General Domestic Servant
Elizabeth Perrett Daughter Single Female 20 1891 Bristol Packer
Alice Perrett Daughter Single Female 18 1893 Bristol Dress Maker
Frank Perrett Son Single Male 16 1895 Bristol Errand Boy
Rose Perrett Daughter Single Female 14 1897 Bristol School
Margaret Helt Boarder Married Female 46 1865 New Zealand No 1 Resident Needle Woman
Frederick J Griffiths Boarder Married Male 32 1879 Hereford Music Hall Artiste
Gladys M Griffiths Boarder Married Female 30 1881 Newport Mon House Wife
Herbert Griffiths Boarder - Male 3 1908 Newport Mon
--------------------------------------

Frederick's birth:
GRIFFITHS, FREDERICK JOHN (mother's maiden name: BRYAN)
GRO Reference: 1879 M Quarter in HEREFORD Volume 06A Page 526

hmmm....Not finding anything for a Gladys May Connors born c 1880 Newport

(yes, he is a pain, lol)...

Chris :)

Chris,
I searched for as many crew members on ships named James Fleming that I could find in the relevant time period.
I could find none that fitted this James's profile.

Re James Fleming death 1915 Newcastle.
He may well be the one crew member that I located but, he was born in Newcastle and gave his address there on a number of sailings.
His address was always in Newcastle and overlapped with the period that Laird's ancestor was known to be in Monmouthshire

What a shame there aren't more of those street directories on-line Chris.

Electoral register would be good. Should imagine they might be held at Central Library- might be worth e-mailing them.
http://www.newport.gov.uk/en/Leisure-Tourism/Libraries/Find-a-library/Central-Library.aspx

Laird, you mentioned that you'd ran out of credits to download the 1911 census image- I've sent it to you.

http://newspapers.library.wales/

(and our ol' friend above not helping either!, with addresses etc., much to the annoyance, lol)

Chris :)

(perhaps there might be something Electoral for Newport, held at Archives)


http://www.newportpast.com/records/index.php

(not seeing 1938)

So, from the above list these are the most likely deaths in England and Wales (that's assuming that who ever registered his death knew his approximate age):

name(s) JAMES FLEMING
Gender Male
Birth year 1868
Age 47
Death quarter 2
Death year 1915
District Newcastle upon Tyne
County Northumberland
Volume 10B Page 183
(a possible born in Newcastle, but not seeing him there in 1911)

name(s) JAMES FLEMING
Gender Male
Birth year 1864
Age 56
Death quarter 2
Death year 1920
District Halifax
County Yorkshire
Volume 9A Page 596
( James Fleming in the area in 1891- not seeing him there in 1911)

name(s) JAMES FLEMING
Gender Male
Birth year 1869
Age 58
Death quarter 2
Death year 1927
District Yeovil
County Somerset
Volume 5C Page 430
(I'm not seeing anything at all for a James Fleming in Yeovil)
------------------------------------------

There is of course this death, but Mary stated her father deceased when she married in 1928:

First name(s) JAMES J
Last name FLEMING
Gender Male
Birth year 1865
Age 68
Death quarter 1
Death year 1933
District Newport (Monmouthshire)
County Monmouthshire
Volume 11A Page 289

I'll be surprised if that death certificate is correct. Several trees on Ancestry agree with Chris, that it is the death of James Fleming that married Bridget Crowe.

These are possible deaths in England and Wales for James Flemings b1860- 1870, between 1914 and 1928. (Chris found a James Fleming that looks to be ours in the 1914 Newport Street directory)

I'll work through them and see which ones we can most likely eliminate,

Fleming James 1868 1915 Newcastle upon Tyne, Northumberland, England
(a possible born in Newcastle, but not seeing him there in 1911)

Fleming James 1867 1916 Prescot, Lancashire, England
(Husband of Ann, born Cumberland at 4 Dock Road Widnes on 1911 census)

Fleming James 1868 1916 Salford, Lancashire, England
(Husband of Hannah, born Lancashire, at 4 Brunswick St Salford on 1911)

Fleming James 1869 1916 Walsall, Staffordshire, England
(Husband of Emma, born Staffordshire, at 100 Portland ST, Walsall on 1911)

Fleming James 1869 1918 Whitehaven, Cumberland, England
(Husband of Elizabeth, born Cumberland, at 4 Arlecdon Road Cockermouth in 1911)

Fleming James 1864 1920 Halifax, Yorkshire, England
( James Fleming in the area in 1891- not seeing him there in 1911)

Fleming James 1860 1921 Lambeth, London, England
(Husband of Caroline, born London, at 5 Ivan Place Kennington in 1911)

Fleming James 1862 1923 West Derby, Lancashire, England
(two possibles living in the area on the 1911)

Fleming James 1860 1924 West Ham, Essex, England
(Husband of Margaret, born Scotland, at 54 Nelson St on 1911)

Fleming James 1861 1925 Newcastle upon Tyne, Northumberland, England
(possibly son of James & Hannah born Durham, at 65 Sycamore St Newcastle upon Tyne in 1911)

Fleming James 1869 1927 Yeovil, Somerset, England

So tonight i managed to order the PDF from the GRO for James Fleming, i think he's the likely candidate based on the info-

https://imgur.com/a/MEXwV

I wrote to the GRO for clarification on the other 2 recommended records as they do seem very likely to connect to my great grandmother Mary Frances Fleming.

Have downloaded the Newport Census for 1901, had intended to download the 1911 but i somehow ran out of credits :-(

https://imgur.com/a/BkSh6

What's interesting about this though is it does give me a concrete reference point of confirming they are my relations. James a sailor, Mary a tailoress in the same business as her father. Census confrims, Whitegate, Cork.

Quite happy with this find, thanks everyone!

Cheers Chris!