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Hi ArgyllGran.

I was of same opinion as you but that is what is shown on the birth certificate. On my fathers birth certificate dated 05/01/1921, it states Richard John Jones
Pensioner on Medical Treatment Ex Army.

Will try yours above.

Regards.

Graham.

If he was a steward on board ship, perhaps the medal award record I posted earlier is the right one.

Would a steward have been his occupation before joining the army??
It seems odd for a sapper in the SMRE to be a steward?

Very few WW1 records actually survive - something in the region of 30%

Further to all the above, have found a birth certificate for his son Robert John Jones dated 27/09/1916, On which it states that Richard John Jones was a Private Sapper, South Midland Royal Engineers (Steward on board ship).
Tried war records but could not find him unless not looking properly.

Graham.

Yes, anything worth a try I think, more a case here of finding things Smith not Jones, lol...

(that 1916 Birth Cert. might have more on the Military side of things, for occ. of Richard)

Chris :)

Hi all.

Like you all, hitting a wall. Will try through his sons Robert John Jones, Fredrick Walter Jones and Leonard William Jones, to see what is on their birth certificates.

Would say below, for above one...

Chris :)

(Born 4th Feb. 1889 for above, a few things FMP, one also Merchant Navy
Date range 1921-1941)

Richard John 1889 — 1889 Anglesey Baptisms Caergybi / Holyhead, Anglesey, Wales

(also Baptism above, 1889 Feb. 27th, (says) Jane Michael) Caergybi / Holyhead, Anglesey.


Feels like a 'Brick Wall' this, and as for Onslow Jones the Sailor, well!...


(and just to add, that 1939 was Anslow, wife of Frederick James, not Onslow!)


Edits

Anglesey Baptisms (Find My Past)

First name(s) Richard John
Last name Jones
Birth year 1889
Baptism year 1889
Baptism date 27 Feb 1889
Place Caergybi / Holyhead
County Anglesey
Country Wales
Father's first name(s) Michael (no occupation given)
Mother's first name(s) Jane
Page 135
(Abode, Cross Street)

Not a soldier, but posting just in case:


Richard John Jones
in the Web: UK, Campaign Medals Awarded to WWI Merchant Seamen, 1914-1925
Name: Richard John Jones
Birth Date: 1889
Birth Place: Holyhead
Year Issued: 1914-1925



JONES, RICHARD JOHN - (no mms)
GRO Reference: 1889 M Quarter in HOLYHEAD Volume 11B Page 467

Looks to be below...

Chris :)

Birth
SMITH, AGNES EDITH (RUDKIN)
GRO Reference: 1896 M Quarter in BRAINTREE Volume 04A Page 693


British Army, British Red Cross Society volunteers 1914-1918 Transcription (Find My Past)

First name(s) Agnes Edith
Last name Smith
Year 1918
Birth year 1896
Rank Nurse
Address High St, Kelvedon
County Essex
County as transcribed Essex
Service from 04/05/1918
Service to 31/08/1919
Engagement date 04/05/1918
Age when engaged 22
Termination date 31/08/1919
Rank at termination Nurse
Department J.W. V.A.D.
Commission Essex 24
Previous engagement P.T.O.
Addtional information 5th Northern General Hosp: Leicester.

(that would be the family for 1911 posted earlier)


(google brings below for The Firs. (Not seeing Jones Powers Hall End 1911)

The Firs, Powers Hall End, Witham


Things Military for Richard then!...

Hi all.

In regard to wedding certificate information as follows:

Richard John Jones: Occupation - Soldier: Address The Firs, Witham, Essex.

Witness: Agnes Edith Smith and J Kneally.

I have no further info on Onslow Jones other than Occupation on certificate as Sailor.

Regarding Richard John Jones's place of birth seem to remember my Father mentioning he came from Wales. Not sure when he left my grandmother. She remarried a Charles James Button on 15th March 1947.

Thanks all for your input, as this is my first attempt at this.

Graham

Having trouble finding Onslow!

Adds below, as it came up!...

Chris :)

Jones O 1864 1916 Deaths At Sea, 1781-1968 (Find My Past)

(1st Mate. Birthplace, Portmadoc. Last place of Abode, 39, Granville Road, Liverpool. Supposed Drowned 24th Oct. Ship Missing. Vessel Name, North Wales)


https://www.wrecksite.eu/wreck.aspx?12550

(no, on above as Owen)


(to go with 1901 above)

1911 (Find My Past)
Alice Mary Smith Head Married Female 39 1872 Witham Essex Charwoman
Dorothy Smith Daughter Single Female 16 1895 Witham Essex -
Robert Ernest Smith Son Single Male 13 1898 Witham Essex School Boy
John Henry Smith Son - Male 11 1900 Witham Essex School Boy
Frank William Smith Son - Male 4 1907 Kelvedon Essex -
Robert Smith Boarder Widower Male 71 1840 Southminster Saddler
High Street Kelverdon, Kelvedon, Essex,


(Find My Past also has below)

Smith Robert Ernest 1897 — 1899-1919 British Royal Navy Seamen 1899-1924 (Born 5/4/97)

Smith Robert Ernest 1897 — 1914 British Royal Navy & Royal Marines, Battle Of Jutland 1916 Servicemen


1939 Register (Find My Past)

28 Gibraltar Road , Mablethorpe and Sutton U.D., Lincolnshire (Parts of Lindsey),
Robert E Smith 05 Apr 1897 Male H M Customs & Excise Coastal Force Constable Married
Nell E Smith 05 Aug 1909 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married

I've had a message from Graham- he is interested to know more about Richard John:

"I have copy of married certificate, for 27/11/1915 with his father listed as Onslow Jones - Sailor.

Regarding his age he was age 26 on wedding certificate, so 1889 came from that."
--------------------------------

Hello Graham- it's easier if you use the box at the bottom of this page to reply, then everyone can see any extra information you can add, and you are likely to get more help.

Can you tell us Richard's occupation and address from the marriage certificate, and the name of any witnesses? They could help.

Photo of Frederick with this article:

Essex Newsman 04 February 1944

WELL LOVED

There was a very large attendance at the funeral at Kelvedon on Wednesday of Flying Offices Frederick W Jones of Oaklands Cottage Kelvedon who was killed in air operations. He was 21 and one of the best loved lads in the village. He is the first local ATC member to lose his life. Before joining the RAF he was in the Colchester Borough Treasurer's Office...
----------------------------------------

Commonwealth War Graves Commission Debt Of Honour

name(s) Frederick Walter Jones
Birth year 1923
Age 21
Death date 27 Jan 1944
Number 152726
Rank Flying Officer
Regiment Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve
Grave reference Grave 416.
Cemetery or Memorial Kelvedon (St. Mary) Churchyard Extension
Additional information Son of Richard John and Dorothy Alice Jones, of Kelvedon.
Link https://www.cwgc.org/find/find-war-dead

No mention of his father in 1939:

Chelmsford Chronicle 15 December 1939

The wedding took place at St Mary's of Miss Bessie Esther Shepherd, only daughter of Mr & Mrs J A Shepherd of Trews Cottages, and Mr Robert John Jones eldest son of Mrs Dorothy Jones of Oaklands Cottage...Mr L Jones was best man.

A possibility??

Dorothy born illegitimate daughter of Alice:

Dorothy Alice Rudkin
England, Essex Parish Registers
Name Dorothy Alice Rudkin
Event Type Christening
Event Date 21 Apr 1895
Event Place Witham, Essex, England
Gender Female
Father's Name /
Mother's Name Alice May Rudkin


Mother marries Mr Smith:

Marriages Jun 1895
Rudkin Alice Mary Braintree 4a 963
Smith Walter Braintree 4a 963


1901 census:
Dorothy A Smith
England and Wales Census, 1901
Name Dorothy A Smith
Event Type Census
Event Date 31 Mar 1901
Event Place Witham, Essex, England
County Essex
Civil Parish Witham
Ecclesiastical Parish St Nicolas Witham With All Saints
Sub-District Witham
Registration District Braintree
Residence Note Maldon Road
Gender Female
Age 6
Relationship to Head of Household Daughter
Birth Year (Estimated) 1895
Birthplace Witham, Essex
Schedule Type 96
Page Number 15
Household


Walter Smith Head M 29 Southminster, Essex
Alice M Smith Wife F 29 Witham, Essex
Dorothy A Smith Daughter F 6 Witham, Essex
Robert E Smith Son M 3 Witham, Essex

birth reg for brother Robert:
SMITH, ROBERT ERNEST mother's maiden name RUDKIN
GRO Reference: 1897 J Quarter in BRAINTREE Volume 04A Page 698


She marries as Rudkin but uses Smith as her maiden name when registering the births of her children

Wrong MMN, but......


Surname First name(s) Mother District Vol Page
Births Sep 1916 (>99%)
Jones Robert J Smith Braintree 4a 1561

Births Mar 1921 (>99%)
Jones Leonard W Smith Braintree 4a 1596


Births Sep 1922 (>99%)
Jones Frederick W Smith Braintree 4a 1525


Andy

Maybe a possibility in 1939:

1939 Register Transcription (Preview)
Jones Household Port Talbot M.B., Glamorganshire, Wales
First name(s) Last name(s) Birth year
Dorothy Jones 1893
Richard Jones (1874) and 1 more person are on this record

Welcome to the boards, Graham.

The marriage cert will tell you his father's name, to help the search:

Marriages Dec 1915 (>99%)
Jones Richard J Rudkin Braintree 4a 2511
Rudkin Dorothy A Jones Braintree 4a 2511


I don't see the births of the sons.
There was a Frederick born in Leicester in 1920, but no Robert or Leonard 1915 - 1940.


I don't see Richard with Dorothy in 1939, either, at least not in Essex (trying to find Richard's DOB).

Possible births of Dorothy:

Births Dec 1891 (>99%)
RUDKIN Dorothy Alice Braintree 4a 639

Births Mar 1895 (>99%)
Rudkin Dorothy Alice Braintree 4a 718.