Find Ancestors

Thanks to everyone who replied to my post.
It would seem that my great grandfather will
remain anonymous.
Happy New year to you all.

Kenny.

https://www.british-genealogy.com/archive/index.php/t-55649.html

(above query could relate?)

Chris :)

(has below)

i can't find no trace of my great great grandad,and i have hit the brickwall

his name his william harber the only thing i know about him is he married margaret jane glenton on the 18th of july 1869 in st judes church, birmingham uk.

she is born in the west derby district (liverpool) in 1846 or 1850 her father is nathaniel glenton and her mother is elizabeth

she has a child called john g harber who is born in 1870 and in the 1871 census is 10 months old and living with her, and her parents in liverpool but there is no mention of william harber.


(Baptism from below link)

http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Search/indexp.html

Baptism: 15 Sep 1870 St Peter, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
John George Harber - [Child] of William Harber & Margaret
Born: 19 May 1870
Abode: Edge Hill
Occupation: Grocer
Baptised by: J. Gallagher Off. Minr.
Register: Baptisms 1870 - 1871, Page 219, Entry 1749
Source: LDS Film 1656565


Marriage: 3 Apr 1898 St Peter, Warrington, Lancashire, England
John George Harber - 26, Railway Policeman, Bachelor, 87, Birchall St.
Elizabeth Ann Rowland - 26, Spinster, 41, Sharp St.
Groom's Father: William Harber, (deceased), Grocer
Bride's Father: Edward Rowland, File Cutter
Witness: John Thomas Johnson; Elizabeth Forster
Married by Banns by: B. Percival
Register: Marriages 1891 - 1901, Page 140, Entry 279
Source: LDS Film 1655858


Baptism: 2 Dec 1900 St Peter, Warrington, Lancashire, England
Arthur Edward Harber - [Child] of John George Harber & Elizabeth Ann
Abode: 136, Birchall St.
Occupation: Labourer
Baptised by: Wm. Bracecamp
Register: Baptisms 1896 - 1905, Page 128, Entry 1018
Source: LDS Film 1655858

She is at home with her parents in 1871


Name: John G Harber
Age: 10 Months
Estimated birth year: abt 1870
Relation: Grandson
Mother's name: Margaret Harber
Gender: Male
Where born: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: West Derby
Ecclesiastical parish: St Catherine
Town: Liverpool
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: West Derby
Sub-registration district: West Derby
ED, institution, or vessel: 45
Household schedule number: 317
Piece: 3846
Folio: 142
Page Number: 48
Household Members:
Name Age
Nathaniel Glenton 60
Elizabeth Glenton 54
Elizabeth Mathews 30
Maggie Mathews 4
Constance Mathews 1
Margaret Harber 21
John G Harber 10 Months
Nathan L Glenton 19
Thomas Glenton 17
Edith E Glenton 10

Baptism
John George Harber
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 19 May 1870
Baptism Date: 15 Sep 1870
Baptism Place: Saint Peter,Liverpool,Lancashire,England
Father: William Harber
Mother: Margaret

His birth
HARBER, - GLENTON
GRO Reference: 1870 J Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 08B Page 182 Order


Marriage
John George Harber
Gender: Male
Age: 26
Birth Date: abt 1872
Marriage Date: 3 Apr 1898
Marriage Place: Warrington, Lancashire, England
Father: William Harber
Spouse: Elizabeth Ann Rowland

Telling porkies on the 1911 census

VIEW 1911 England Census
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Report issue
Name: William Henry Jones
Age in 1911: 64
Estimated birth year: abt 1847
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Edge Shill Liverpool
Civil Parish: Bootle cum Linacre
Search Photos: Search for 'Bootle cum Linacre' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address: 1 St Edmonds Road Bootle
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Bookkeeper Chemical Co
Registration district: West Derby
Registration District Number: 455
Sub-registration district: Bootle
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Piece: 22416
Household Members:
Name Age
William Henry Jones 64
Margaret Jane Jones 60
Hennitta Jones 27
William Arthur Jones 24
Eva Jones 18

Married 29 years 3 children born

According to a tree on ancestry the mother was Margaret Jane Glenton

Here is the marriage

Marriages Sep 1869
GLENTON Margaret Jane Birmingham 6d 78
Harber William Birmingham 6d 78

William Harber
Gender Male
Age 19
Birth Date abt 1850
Marriage Date 18 Jul 1869
Marriage Place Birmingham, St Jude, Warwickshire, England
Parish as it Appears Birmingham, St Jude
Search Photos Birmingham, St Jude, Warwickshire, England - False False
Father William Harber
Spouse Margaret Jane Glenton age 18
Household Members
Name Age
William Harber
William Harber father occ farmer
Margaret Jane Glenton
Nathaniel Glenton Father occ sail maker


And her birth
Births Sep 1850
Glenton Margaret Jane W Derby 20 1144

Possibly the father
England & Wales, Criminal Registers, 1791-1892


Name William Harber
Date of Trial 17 October 1859
Trial Year 1859
Location of Trial Worcestershire, England
Sentence Imprisonment 6 months
Embezzlement

Who did Arthur marry and when

Seems he was already married
Marriages Dec 1872 (>99%)
CARESWELL Rachel W. Derby 8b 569
JONES William Henry W. Derby 8b 569


JONES, FREDERICK GEORGE SHERWOOD CARESWELL
GRO Reference: 1874 D Quarter in WEST DERBY AND TOXTETH PARK Volume 08B Page 573


JONES, RACHEL CARESWELL
GRO Reference: 1876 M Quarter in WEST DERBY AND TOXTETH PARK Volume 08B Page 440

JONES, WILLIAM HENRY CARESWELL CARESWELL
GRO Reference: 1879 J Quarter in WEST DERBY & TOXTETH PARK Volume 08B Page 222

Was a late marriage and he died quite soon after

Marriages Jun 1919
Harber Margaret J Jones W.Derby 8b 507
Jones William H Harber W.Derby 8b 507


Name: Margaret Jane Harber
[Margaret Jane Glenton]
Gender: Female
Age: 68
Birth Year: abt 1851
Widow
Marriage Date: 12 Apr 1919
Marriage Place: Bootle, St Mary, Lancashire, England
Search Photos: Search for 'Bootle, St Mary' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Map:
View this parish
Father: Nathaniel Glenton occ sailmaker
Spouse: William Henry Jones occ accountant widower
Father John Jones deceased occ builder
Address for both 13 St Edmunds Road


William H Jones
Death Age: 73
Birth Date: abt 1847
Registration Date: Mar 1920
Registration district: West Derby
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 8b
Page: 616

His birth cert doesn't name a father so he looks to be illigitimate

HARPUR, ARTHUR -
GRO Reference: 1887 M Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 08B Page 91

Is this his mother in 1861? :-

1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
..., Rockmojock, Caton, Lancaster, Lancashire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place

Margaret Harper Head Widow Female 51 1810 Grocer Kendal, Westmorland, England
William Harper Son Unmarried Male 27 1834 Warehouseman Caton, Lancashire, England
Mary A Harper Daughter Unmarried Female 23 1838 Cotton Winder Caton, Lancashire, England
John Harper Son Unmarried Male 21 1840 Joiner Caton, Lancashire, England
Richard C Harper Son - Male 15 1846 Joiner Caton, Lancashire, England
Margaret J Harper Daughter - Female 12 1849 Scholar Caton, Lancashire, England<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
George Harper Son - Male 9 1852 Scholar Caton, Lancashire, England

If so then I would suggest that she was in fact a single mother and as she was housekeeper to William before their marriage, he could possibly be the father, although I doubt whether you could prove it.

Do you have Arthur's birth certificate? If so does it name a father? If not then it's impossible to prove who his father was.

Kath. x

He was born in Liverpool. In the 1901 census he appears as a
Jones along with his mother and sister Henrietta. His mother
married William Henry Jones about 1920.

Kenny

????

Births Mar 1887 (>99%)
Harpur Arthur Liverpool 8b 91

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Adelaide Road, West Derby, Lancashire, England

Learn more
Print transcription View image
Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
William H Jones Head Married Male 44 1847 Book Keeper Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Transcription
Frederick G Jones Son Single Male 16 1875 Office Boy Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Transcription
Rachel Jones Daughter - Female 15 1876 - Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Transcription
William H Jones Son - Male 12 1879 Scholar Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Transcription
Margaret J Harber Housekeeper Married Female 40 1851 - Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Transcription
Henrietta Harber Daughter Of Mrs Harber - Female 7 1884 Scholar Egremont, Cheshire, England
Transcription
Arthur Harber Son Of Mrs Harber - Male 4 1887 - Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Transcription
John H Welliam Boarder Single Male 28 1863 Publisher Liverpool, Lancashire, England

Could anyone find the father of my grandfather above?
He was born Arthur Harber but changed his name to
Jones. I suspect his mother may have parted from her
husband before she had him. Also I have no record of
his death.

Kenny