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My apologies - I hadn't read every post in detail. Mea culpa.

ErikaH- I think we already covered that. We think it's likely the Frederick he was referring to his step father Frederick Dugless- a blacksmith.

On Albert Huggins marriage cert in 1903, he gave his father's name as Frederick - Occupation, Blacksmith

Austin,

She listed James Smith as the father.I have searched marriages for Elizabeth Huggins and James Smith from 1872-1874 in Birmingham and found nothing.She was in service in Bristol in 1871 and the Head of the household was a James Symes........ I wonder ???.

Robert

Thanks for letting us know Robert. Just out of interest who did Elizabeth list as the father? Have you been able to find Mr Smith?

Thanks to all who gave me information but especially AustinQ who managed to solve the missing birth record for Albert. I now have his Birth Certificate from the GRO and Elizabeth Huggins is shown as his mother and Erdington as the sub district where he was born. Future census records give his birth in Erdington and his mother Elizabeth marries Frederick Duglass( Douglas ) in Birmingham but later they move to the Bristol area ( near to where her parents Isaac & Sarah and their grandson/ her son Albert live ). My late mother Albert's daughter ( Kathleen Valerie Huggins later to marry and become Fitz ) told me many years ago that her father ( Albert ) used to periodically visit a relative in Clifton, Bristol. That is where Elizabeth Douglas was living when she died in 1938 !. Albert himself died 2 years later in 1940.

Thank you very much to all that have replied to my query. There is some really interesting and helpful detail here and it will take a while to tie it in with what I already knew.Please do not hesitate to send any further information you may unearth.

Robert

greyghost how do you find this info? There's so much detail !

Hi Robert,

I think AQ solved it..

Would be nice to have feedback

Jude

Hey looks good!

Had searched all the Huggins births for the time and was just about to do the albert births with no surname...so you have saved me a trawl AQ!

Having looked at all the Albert births in the area that would fit with an October birth, I suspect this is his birth under surname Smith:

Birth:
SMITH, ALBERT JAMES (mother's maiden name: HUGGINS)
GRO Reference: 1874 D Quarter in ASTON Volume 06D Page 407

Not that it helps with a birth...here is the 1891 mention in OP with grandparents

Name: Albert Huggans
Gender: Male
Age: 16
Relationship: Grandson
Birth Year: 1875
Birth Place: Birmingham
Civil Parish: Winterbourne
Ecclesiastical parish: Frenchay
Residence Place: Stapleton, Winterbourne, Gloucestershire, England
Registration district: Barton Regis
Sub registration district: Stapleton
ED, Institution or Vessel: 18
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1993
Folio: 32
Household Members:
Name Age
Isaac Huggans 70
Sarah Huggans 70
Albert Huggans 16

Jude

Looks like Louisa's death:

Louisa C Huggins
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Louisa C Huggins
Death Age: 68
Birth Date: abt 1885
Registration Date: Jun 1953
Registration district: Cheltenham
Inferred County: Gloucestershire
Volume: 7b
Page: 292


Therefore possibly Albert's death:

Albert J Huggins
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Albert J Huggins
Death Age: 65
Birth Date: abt 1875
Registration Date: Mar 1940
Registration district: Cheltenham
Inferred County: Gloucestershire
Volume: 6a
Page: 1367

British India Office Ecclesiastical Returns- Births & Baptisms Transcription

First name(s) Elsie Louisa
Last name Huggins
Birth year 1904
Birth date 22 Dec 1904
Baptism year 1904
Baptism date 6 Jan 1905
Place Lucknow,All Saints
Presidency Bengal
Father's first name(s) Albert
Father's last name Huggins
Mother's first name(s) Louisa Charlotte
Mother's last name -
Archive reference N-1-322
Folio 114
Page -

from image - said to be born 22 Dec 1904
Albert a Sergeant with 1st Bn Gloster Regt.
Abode of parents - Lucknow
Chaplain - Leonard Hugh

says he was born in
Erdington Warwickshire

Albert Huggins
England and Wales Census, 1911
Name:
Albert Huggins
Event Type:
Census
Event Date:
1911
Event Place:
Tewkesbury, Tewkesbury, Gloucestershire, England
County:
Gloucestershire
Parish:
Tewkesbury
Sub-District:
Tewkesbury
Registration District:
Tewkesbury
Gender:
Male
Age:
36
Marital Status (Original):
MARRIED
Occupation:
INSURANCE AGENT
Birth Year (Estimated):
1875
Birthplace:
Warwick Erdington, Warwickshire
Relationship to Head of Household:
Head
Line:
1
Page:
1
Household
Role
Sex
Age
Birthplace
Albert Huggins
Head
Male
36
Warwick Erdington, Warwickshire
Louisa Huggins
Wife
Female
27
Stroud, Gloucestershire
Elsie Huggins
Daughter
Female
6
India Lucknow Resident
Florence Huggins
Daughter
Female
4
Leeds, Yorkshire
Albert Huggins
Son
Male
1
Tewkesbury, Gloucestershire

"Henry Harding's" documents -

Here the Service No. is given as 24313 R.A.
Attested 16.11.1892 for 7 years Army service and 5 years Reserve service
Posted 21.12.1892
Found to ave fraudulently enlisted into Royal Artillery whilst in a state of desertion from 1st Battn Gloster REgt. which he served as No 3385 Private Albert Huggins.
12.9.1893 Awaiting trial
22.9.1893 Tried and convicted. All prior service forfeited on conviction of fraudulent enlistment. Service towards limited engagement reckons from 22.9.1893 when he was imprisoned.
Relegated to Private in Glosters from date of imprisonment

Returned to duty 1 Nov. 1893 with Glosters - unexpired period of imprisonment cancelled
1st Good conduct badge awarded 3.11.1895 and
advanced to Lance Corporal 11.9.1896, then Corporal 10.2.1899 and to Sergeant 5.12.1901

Served
Home 5.9.1891-31.10.1892
Malta 1.11.1892-20.11.1895
Egypt 21.11.1895-8.2.1897
India 6.2.1897-15.12.1905
Home 16.12.1905-19.12.1905

OK, further detail from documents -

Attested at Bristol 5 Sep. 1891 aged 18 years and 0 months. Born in the Parish of Frenchay, near Bristol. A Labourer. Already in Militia - 3rd Battn Gloster Regt.

5' 5 ½" 122lbs. Chest Min 32 ½", max 33 ½"
Complexion Fair, Eyes Blue, Hair Brown CofE. No distinguishing marks

Discharge 20 Sept. 1905 after completing 12 years Service. Stationed at Subatha

As H Harding he attested to the Royal Regiment of Artillery 16 Nov. 1892 Service No. 94313 and served in Jersey. Whilst there he was awarded 168 hours imprisonment (7 days) on 4 Sept 1893 after being absent from place of duty.

On 22 Sep. 1893 whilst in Jersey he was Imprisoned for 56 days for the offence of Fraudulent Enlistment on 16 Nov. 1892 where it was noted Harding was an alias and he was Albert Huggins No. 3358.

He enlisted at Newport, Mons. to the Royal Artillery, whilst belonging to the 1st Battn. Glosters. This enabled him to obtain free kit value £1 13s 7 3/4d for which he was stopped pay.

Re engaged 22.2.1903 to complete 21 years with the colours but discharged 22.9.05 under article 1142 (ii) Royal Warrant

Named after grandfather?



DOUGLASS, ISAAC JOHN HUGGINS Order
GRO Reference: 1888 D Quarter in BARTON REGIS Volume 06A Page 149

sadly died

Deaths Mar 1890 (>99%)
Douglas Isaac John 1 Barton R. 6a 110Order


DOUGLASS, THOMAS HUGGINS Order
GRO Reference: 1886 M Quarter in BARTON REGIS Volume 06A Page 125

1901 census:

Frederick Douglas
England and Wales Census, 1901
Name: Frederick Douglas
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 31 Mar 1901
Event Place: Bristol, Gloucestershire, England
County: Gloucestershire
Civil Parish: Bristol
Ecclesiastical Parish: St Thomas Eastville
Sub-District: Stapleton
Registration District: Bristol
Residence Note: Napier Road
Gender: Male
Age: 44
Occupation: Shoeing Smith
Relationship to Head of Household: Head
Birth Year (Estimated): 1857
Birthplace: Kings Lynn, Norfolk
Schedule Type: 173
Page Number: 27
Household

Frederick Douglas
Head
Male
44
Kings Lynn, Norfolk
Elizabeth Douglas
Wife
Female
47
Downend, Gloucestershire
Hannah Douglas
Daughter
Female
19
Birmingham, Warwickshire
Thomas Douglas
Son
Male
15
Bristol
Sarah Douglas
Daughter
Female
9
Bristol

Frederick Douglas
England and Wales Census, 1891
Name: Frederick Douglas
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 1891
County: Gloucestershire
Parish: St Philip & St Jacob Out
Ecclesiastical Parish: ST JUDE
Registration District: Barton Regis
Residence Note: Great Ann Street
Gender: Male
Age: 37
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Blacksmith<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Relationship to Head of Household: Head
Birth Year (Estimated): 1854
Birthplace: England
Page Number: 15
Registration Number: RG12
Piece/Folio: 1983/ 96
Household
Role
Sex
Age
Birthplace
Frederick Douglas
Head
Male
37
England
Elizabeth Douglas
Wife
Female
40
Gloucestershire, England
Hannah Douglas
Daughter
Female
9
England
Thomas Douglas
Son
Male
5
England