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PricklyHolly
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3 Dec 2017 16:14 |
Hi John
The thing is, we don't actually know if and when George Langley died.
(When i say "IF".....he obviously died at some point!! lol)
Apart from the marriage to Mary in 1866, we don't actually know anything about him.
Hopefully, the marriage cert will give a few clues about him that will help us to find out what happened to him
Hopefully it will reveal his age, residence and occupation at the time of the marriage, and also the name and occupation of his father. The witnesses might be a clue too.
It is all rather odd!
We have..........
LANGLEY, SARAH ANN FLORENCE MMN WOODLAND GRO Reference: 1867 J Quarter in PORTSEA ISLAND Volume 02B Page 400
Know as Florence and living with her Grandfather on the 1871 census.
FIELD, THOMAS MMN WOODLAND GRO Reference: 1870 M Quarter in KENSINGTON Volume 01A Page 34
Referred to as.....Otherwise Thomas Langley
And......
LANGLEY, FRANCES EMMA MMN WOODLAND GRO Reference: 1873 S Quarter in WESTHAMPNETT Volume 02B Page 331
Referred to as........Otherwise Frances Amy Langley
It might be a possibily that Mary and George had seperated and yet Frances's birth was still registered with the surname Langley in 1873......also leaving Mary unable to marry Thomas Field.
Pure speculation of course (Hey, what do i know!) but i do think we need to try and find out more about George Langley.
Obviously Mary was in Portsea Island (Portsmouth) at some point......and then Kensington.
She is not with her family on the 1851 and 1861 census........i have searched for her but can't seem to find her anywhere.
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JOHN
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3 Dec 2017 14:40 |
Dear Prickly Holly
Need your advise, and hope you agree with me.
I appreciate the excellent research and detailed information supplied.
However it appears I could obtain various birth, death and marriage certificates, but probably not answer my original posting on 18 November 2017 at 9 11am, being to confirm the marriage of Thomas Field and Mary Ann Francis Woodland.
I note from posting on 19 November at 11 45am, Thomas Field acknowledge Mary had more than 'marriage', Furthermore including Thomas & Frances Amy Field/Langley in his Estate, but not Florence Field/Langley.
With the birth of Frances Langley in 1873, three years after a George Langley died, would suggest there was more than one George Langley, unless they used a 'Sperm Bank' :-)
If money was no problem, would love to get several birth, death and marriage certificates, just for peace of mind and try and solve the Field/Langley/woodland puzzle.
As I said, I hope you agree, at this time its not worth the extra expense in obtaining copy certificates.
Thanking you in anticipation.
With kind regards.
JOHN.
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PricklyHolly
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26 Nov 2017 12:55 |
Hi John
No, i am not in any way connected to any of the Woodland/Langley/Field families.
A problem i have with that 1870 death for a George Langley........is that there was another child born in 1873 with the surname Langley.
LANGLEY, FRANCES EMMA MMN WOODLAND GRO Reference: 1873 S Quarter in WESTHAMPNETT Volume 02B Page 331
It is my opinion that this Frances is the Frances/Amy Field who appears on the 1881 and 1891 census and who Thomas mentions in his will....
(Born 1875 on the 1881 census.....1874 on the 1891 census.....born 1876 on the 1901 census and born 1879 on the 1911 census......Born abt 1875 on her death record.)
To Edward Critchell...Boot Maker....Thomas Field otherwise Langley....dealer and Frances Amy Field otherwise Langley...spinster
(Something "fishy" going on somewhere! ;-) )
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Dea
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26 Nov 2017 12:16 |
2 'bits' I found - don't know if they might help??
This article shows that in 1874 Thomas was in Partnership with Stephen Woodland who I believe was Mary's brother. - Son of George and Ann. Taken from : Chichester Express and West Sussex Journal 29 September 1874
Can be viewed here: https://www.genesreunited.co.uk/keepsafe/asset/details/60928194
This is Stephen in 1871:
1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription Bottle Lane, Oving, Westhampnett, Sussex, England
Learn more Print transcription View image Household Members First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place Stephen Woodland Head - Male 22 1849 - Sussex, England - Pig Dealer Transcription Annie Woodland Wife - Female 21 1850 - Sussex, England Transcription Stephen J Woodland Son - Male 3 1868 - Sussex, England Transcription Francis Anne Woodland Daughter - Female 2 1869 - Sussex, England Transcription Katherine R Woodland Daughter - Female 0 1871 - Sussex, England
Also -
This article from Marylebone Mercury 16 July 1870 relates to the George Langley who died in 1870 (referenced above).
He was a servant, had a brother Richard, and I am not sure he is the same one we were looking for. Although, it may be worth following the family back to see?
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JOHN
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26 Nov 2017 11:47 |
Dear Prickly Holly
Thank you for your quick response.
Not wanting to pry, does your own Tree, in any way relate to Thomas Field and family ?
Will contact you on receiving copy of the Langley/Woodland marriage certificate.
With kind regards.
JOHN.
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PricklyHolly
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26 Nov 2017 11:05 |
Thank you for getting back to us John.
Regarding the post that Chris posted.........
""" 25 September 1889 - Chichester Observer - Chichester, West Sussex,
CHICHESTER COUNTY BENCH John Fallick x. Thomas Langley alias Field were out of Court.
(relating to Assault case being not heard, but settled out of Court)""""
I believe this is referring to the son.......
Do get back to us if you purchase another copy of the Langley/Woodland marriage cert.
I got quite hooked on this one!! :-)
Prickles ;o))
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JOHN
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26 Nov 2017 10:43 |
Dear Pickly Holly & Chris Ho :-)
Sorry for the delay in responding, but just confused with Thomas Field !
However, may I first congratulate you on your extensive and detailed research.
Referring to my original posting on 18th November 2017 at 9 11am, in trying to find Thomas's marriage to Mary A F Woodland, the picture is very confusing. Are we saying George Langley and Thomas Field, are on of the same person, (see Chris Ho posting on 19th November 2017 at 17 27pm).
Referring to Pickly Holly posting on 19th November 2017 at 17 49pm, when completing a Family Bible for my first grandchild, did obtain copy marriage certificate relating to Langley/Woodland in 1866, however not being a hoarder this was not retained. Now, in view of my information supplied, may obtain another copy.
With regard to Thomas Field and family, can at this time say 'apples don't fall far from the tree'
Thank again to all for your help.
Kind regards.
JOHN.
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PricklyHolly
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19 Nov 2017 17:49 |
It would be interesting to know about the father George Langley.
If it were me......i would have to purchase a copy of the 1866 Langley/Woodman marriage cert.
:-D
Thomas Langley Oherwise Field in the England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973 Name: Thomas Langley Sherwise Field Gender: Male Marriage Date: 25 Jul 1891 Marriage Place: Chichester, Sussex, England Spouse: Rosa Louisa Kimbell
1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription 82, St James, Chichester, Sussex, England
(Sister Frances living at No 79 Lion House)
Thomas Field Head Married Male 30 1871 Horse Dealer London, Middlesex, England Transcription Rose Field Wife Married Female 30 1871 - Chichester, Sussex, England Transcription Gertrude Field Daughter - Female 8 1893 - Chichester, Sussex, England Transcription Doris Field Daughter - Female 7 1894 - Chichester, Sussex, England Transcription Robert Field Son - Male 6 1895 - Chichester, Sussex, England Transcription Richard Field Son - Male 4 1897 - Chichester, Sussex, England
1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription 1 Whyke Road Chichester, Chichester, Sussex, England
Thomas Field Head Married Male Horse - Dealer 42 1869 Maiden Vale London Transcription Rosa L Field Wife Married Female - 42 1869 Chichester Sussex Transcription Gertrude Field Daughter Single Female - 18 1893 Chichester Sussex Transcription Doris Field Daughter Single Female - 17 1894 Chichester Sussex Transcription Thomas R Field Son Single Male Assisting In Business 16 1895 Chichester Sussex Transcription Richard Field Son - Male School 14 1897 Chichester Sussex Transcription Brenda Field Daughter - Female School 7 1904 Chichester Sussex Transcription Fanny Kimbell Visitor Mother In Law Widow Female - 69 1842 Hampshire Peters Field Transcription Daisy Edwards - Single Female Servant 18 1893 Sussex Chichester
Births Mar 1868 (>99%) KIMBELL Rosa Louisa Chichester 2b 365
Thomas Field on the 1939 Register
Field Household (3 People) 208 Whyke Road , Chichester M.B., Sussex, England
Thomas Field 19 Jan 1870 Male Hore Carter On Own Account Married 246 1 Rosa L Field 07 Jan 1868 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 246 2 Thomas R Field 21 Sep 1894 Male Riding Master On Own Account Single 246 3
Thomas Field in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007 Name: Thomas Field Death Age: 74 Birth Date: abt 1870 Registration Date: Mar 1944 Registration district: Chichester Inferred County: Sussex Volume: 2b Page: 722
Edit:.....A shame John didn't get back to us.
It was all very interesting.
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Chris Ho :)
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19 Nov 2017 17:27 |
(looks to relate also!)
Chris :)
25 September 1889 - Chichester Observer - Chichester, West Sussex,
CHICHESTER COUNTY BENCH John Fallick x. Thomas Langley alias Field were out of Court.
(relating to Assault case being not heard, but settled out of Court)
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PricklyHolly
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19 Nov 2017 14:50 |
In case this is of interest to you.....
FIELD, THOMAS MMN AYLWARD GRO Reference: 1845 M Quarter in WESTHAMPNETT UNION Volume 07 Page 536
Thomas Field in the England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975 Name: Thomas Field Gender: Male Baptism Date: 8 Jun 1845 Baptism Place: Rumboldswyke,Sussex,England Father: George Field Mother: Mary
1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription Whyke Road, Rumboldswyke, Westhampnett, Sussex, England William Crowther Head Married Male 42 1819 Agricultural Labourer Donington, Sussex, England Transcription Mary Crowther Wife Married Female 46 1815 Needlewoman Starston???, Sussex, England Transcription Friend Field Son In Law Unmarried Male 20 1841 Agricultural Labourer Sussex, England Transcription Sarah Field Daughter In Law Unmarried Female 18 1843 Servant Sussex, England Transcription Thomas Field Son In Law Unmarried Male 16 1845 Agricultural Labourer Sussex, England Transcription Ellen Crowther Daughter - Female 11 1850 Scholar Sussex, England
William Crowter in the 1851 England Census Name: William Crowter Age: 32 Estimated birth year: abt 1819 Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Mary Crowter Gender: Male Where born: Donnington, Sussex, England Civil Parish: Greatham County/Island: Sussex Country: England Registration district: Westhampnett Sub-registration district: Manhood William Crowter 32 Ag Lab Donnington, Sussex, England Mary Crowter 35 North Mundham, Sussex, England Emily Crowter 5 Ellen Crowter 1 Harriett Tield 12 Rumbolds Whyke, Sussex, England Friend Tield 10 Rumbolds Whyke, Sussex, England Sarah Tield 8 Rumbolds Whyke, Sussex, England Thomas Tield 6 Rumbolds Whyke, Sussex, England
Mother Mary re- married in 1849
Marriages Sep 1849 (>99%) Crowter William Wt Hampnett 7 729 Field Mary W Hampnett 7 729
William Crowter in the England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973 Name: William Crowter Gender: Male Marriage Date: 23 Sep 1849 Marriage Place: Rumboldswyke,Sussex,England Spouse: Mary Field
1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription Wyke Street, Rumboldswyke, Westhampnett, Sussex, England
George Field Male (Dealer) 30 1811 Sussex, England Transcription Mary Field Female 25 1816 Sussex, England Transcription George Field Male 4 1837 Sussex, England Transcription Harriett Field Female 2 1839 Sussex, England Transcription Friend Field Male 0 1841
Deaths Sep 1844 (>99%) FIELD George Westhampnett 7 325
George Field in the England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975 Name: George Field Gender: Male Baptism Date: 26 Mar 1837 Baptism Place: Name: George Field Gender: Male Baptism Date: 26 Mar 1837 Baptism Place: Rumboldswyke,Sussex,England Father: George Field Mother: Mary Father: George Field Mother: Mary
Harriett Field in the England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975 Name: Harriett Field Gender: Female Baptism Date: 24 Feb 1839 Baptism Place: Rumboldswyke,Sussex,England Father: George Field Mother: Mary
FIELD, HARRIETT MMN AYLWARD GRO Reference: 1838 D Quarter in WESTHAMPNETT UNION Volume 07 Page 437 Order
(Married Alfred James Sims in 1858)
Friend Field in the England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975 Name: Friend Field Gender: Male Baptism Date: 21 Mar 1841 Baptism Place: Rumboldswyke,Sussex,England Father: George Field Mother: Mary
FIELD, FRIEND MMN AYLWARD GRO Reference: 1841 M Quarter in WESTHAMPNETT UNION Volume 07 Page 523
(Married Ellen Cousens in 1864)
Sarah Field in the England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975 Name: Sarah Field Gender: Female Baptism Date: 5 Mar 1843 Baptism Place: Rumboldswyke,Sussex,England Father: George Field Mother: Mary
FIELD, SARAH MMN AYLWARD GRO Reference: 1843 M Quarter in WESTHAMPNETT UNION Volume 07 Page 528
?? Deaths Dec 1867 (>99%) Field Sarah 24 Westhampnett 2b 206
You might very well have all this information already John.......but i thought i would post it anyway.
Prickles ;o))
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greyghost
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19 Nov 2017 13:59 |
Don't know if Elizabeth is still doing Romany look ups - a while since her thread was used
https://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/genealogy_chat/thread/1342925
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PricklyHolly
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19 Nov 2017 11:45 |
I don't know where you can find gypsy marriages John.
Thomas Field in the England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1966, 1973-1995 Name: Thomas Field Death Date: 30 Aug 1896 Death Place: Chichester, Sussex, England Probate Date: 15 Jan 1897 Registry: Chichester
Of Lion-House. St James, Chichester....Horse Dealer
Chichester Observer 09 September 1896 All Persons having any claims upon the Estate of Thomas Fields, late of Lion House, St James, and the City of St John'a Mews, Southgate, in the City of Chichester, Dealer and Jobmaster, deceased, are requsted to send particulars thereof to me the undersigned forthwith William Parker Cogan, Solicitors to the Executors.
To Edward Critchell...Boot Maker....Thomas Field otherwise Langley....dealer and Frances Amy Field otherwise Langley...spinster
Effects: £4878 15s 5d
Indicating then, that Thomas and Frances Amy were also the children of Mary's first husband George Langley.
Although as i posted earlier.....Thomas's surname was registered as Field..
FIELD, THOMAS MMN WOODLAND GRO Reference: 1870 M Quarter in KENSINGTON Volume 01A Page 34
No birth registered for a Frances Amy Field or Langley
??
LANGLEY, FRANCES EMMA MMN WOODLAND GRO Reference: 1873 S Quarter in WESTHAMPNETT Volume 02B Page 331
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Chris Ho :)
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19 Nov 2017 07:52 |
If below relate to Lion House on above...
Chris :)
06 July 1921 - Chichester Observer - Chichester, West Sussex, England
MARRIAGES. FIELD - CUMDY. At Fetherston, New Zealand, on June 28th. May, the second daughter the late Mr. Thomas Field, of Lion House, Chichester, to Gilbert, only surviving son of the late Mr. Joseph Cumdy of Fetherston, New Zealand.
(as Cundy on below notice)
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/EP19210701.2.118?query=gilbert cundy
22 March 1911 - Chichester Observer - Chichester, West Sussex, England
CHICHESTER. “... to each of whom for the executorship the testator left £5O. All other of his property he left to Frances Amy Field, Lion House, Chichester, for life, with remainder to the Chichester Infirmary.
(Will of Mr. Edward Crichell, would be below)
Deaths Mar 1911 (>99%) ------------------------------------------------------ Critchell Edward 61 Chichester 2b 281
(1901, a visitor with Fields, 79, St James, Chichester, Sussex)
27 May 1944 - Bognor Regis Observer - Bognor Regis, West Sussex, England
WANTED, cook-general for Chichester district ; three in family, help given.— Apply, Mrs. Harold Field, Lion House, St. James, Chichester.
Edits (a snippet relating to a Mrs. George Woodland who died, mention of her husband belonging to the oldest family of Selsey, their name being mentioned in documents as far back as the year 1259, when one John Woodland was taxed X11d for a certain subsidy)
Deaths Jun 1916 (>99%) --------------------------------------------------------------- Woodland Emma N 73 Westhampnett 2b 477
(perhaps in family of below!)
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/a6c65c5b-c229-42a9-8d17-7f3dbd52b4f5
(Smuggling Offences)
13 September, 1826 Information of William Wilson preferred against George Woodland of Selsey for concealing 3 gallons of brandy.
(no, probably a different Woodland family, in Selsey on Census, George occ. Fisherman)
Passenger Lists leaving UK 1890-1960 Transcription
First name(s) May Last name Field Title MISS Gender Female Age 38 Birth year 1881 Occupation NIL Departure year 1919 Departure day 16 Departure month 11 Departure port Avonmouth Destination port Wellington Destination WELLINGTON Country New Zealand
Birth FIELD, MAY (WOODLAND) GRO Reference: 1879 D Quarter in WESTHAMPNETT Volume 02B Page 398
Edits (now added 1901)
1901 (Find My Past) Frances A Field Head Single Female 25 1876 Horse & Carriage Proprietor Chichester, Sussex, England Harold Field Brother Single Male 22 1879 Horse & Carriage Proprietor Chichester, Sussex, England May Field Sister Single Female 19 1882 - Chichester, Sussex, England Lilian G Field Sister Single Female 17 1884 Milliner Chichester, Sussex, England Rosalind Field Sister Single Female 15 1886 - Chichester, Sussex, England Emily Fowles Servant Married Female 27 1874 Household Domestic Horsham, Sussex, England Edward Critchell Visitor Single Male 49 1852 Boot Manufacturer Sussex, England Street St James Parish Chichester County Sussex
Deaths Mar 1935 (>99%) ----------------------------------------------------------- Field Frances A 60 Westhampnett 2b 626
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JOHN
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18 Nov 2017 14:08 |
Hi All
Its believed Thomas Field & Mary Ann Frances Woodland came from a gypsy background, are there any records of gypsy weddings, in order to find the marriage of Thomas & Mary Ann Frances ?
Thanking you in anticipation.
Kind regards.
JOHN.
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PricklyHolly
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18 Nov 2017 10:23 |
Death of Frances/Mary
Deaths Jun 1888 (>99%) FIELD Mary Ann 38 Chichester 2b 248
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PricklyHolly
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18 Nov 2017 10:17 |
Mary Ann Frances Woodland in the England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975 Name: Mary Ann Frances Woodland Gender: Female Baptism Date: 12 Mar 1848 Baptism Place: Saint Paul,Chichester,Sussex,England Father: George Woodland Mother: Ann
(Not with her parents in any of the census records)
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PricklyHolly
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18 Nov 2017 10:07 |
1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription Lion House, St James Road, Chichester, Sussex, England
Thomas Field Head Widower Male 49 1842 Horse Dealer Sussex, England Transcription Florence Field Daughter Single Female 23 1868 - Hampshire, England Transcription Thomas Field Son Single Male 21 1870 Horse Dealer London, Middlesex, England Transcription Frances A Field Daughter Single Female 17 1874 Scholar Sussex, England Transcription Harold Field Son Single Male 14 1877 Scholar Sussex, England Transcription May Field Daughter - Female 11 1880 Scholar Sussex, England Transcription Julian G Field (Lilian Grace) Daughter - Male 8 1883 Scholar Sussex, England Transcription Rosalind Field Daughter - Female 5 1886 Scholar Sussex, England Transcription Prudence Glue Servant Single Female 21 1870 General Servant Sussex, England
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PricklyHolly
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18 Nov 2017 10:04 |
Was Mary first married to a Mr Langley
??
Marriages Sep 1866 (>99%) LANGLEY George Chichester 2b 577 Woodland Mary A Chichester 2b 577
1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription 27, Oving Road, Oving, Westhampnett, Sussex, England
Thomas Field Head Married Male 37 1844 Horse Dealer Chichester, Sussex, England Transcription Frances Field Wife Married Female 30 1851 - Chichester, Sussex, England Transcription Florance Field Daughter Single Female 13 1868 Scholar Chichester, Sussex, England Transcription Thomas Field Son Single Male 10 1871 Scholar Chichester, Sussex, England Transcription Amey Field Daughter Single Female 6 1875 Scholar Chichester, Sussex, England Transcription May Field Daughter Single Female 1 1880 Infant Chichester, Sussex, England Transcription Harold Field Son Single Male 4 1877 Scholar Chichester, Sussex, England
So where did daughter Florence pop up from??
This is my theory.....
Florence's birth registration....
LANGLEY, SARAH ANN FLORENCE MMN WOODLAND GRO Reference: 1867 J Quarter in PORTSEA ISLAND Volume 02B Page 400
Known as "Florence" and with her Grandfather on the 1871 census......
1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription Muttons Farm, Sidlesham, Westhampnett, Sussex, England
George Woodland Head (Farmer of 11 Acres) Male 58 1813 - Sussex, England Transcription Emily Woodland Daughter - Female 10 1861 - Sussex, England Transcription Florence Langley ****** Granddaughter - Female 3 1868 - Hampshire, England
Death of father George
??
Deaths Sep 1870 (>99%) Langley George 25 Kensington 1a 34
That is if he did in fact die.
Perhaps he didn't and that is why Mary wasn't free to marry Thomas Field??
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PricklyHolly
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18 Nov 2017 09:49 |
There does not appear to be a Thomas Field/Mary Woodland marriage
1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription Wickham Cross Road, Rumboldswhyke, Westhampnett, Sussex, England
Thomas Field Head Horse Dealer- Male 26 1845 - Sussex, England Transcription Frances Field Wife - Female 21 1850 - Sussex, England Transcription Thomas Field Son - Male 1 1870 - Sussex, England
FIELD, THOMAS MMN WOODLAND GRO Reference: 1870 M Quarter in KENSINGTON Volume 01A Page 34
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JOHN
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18 Nov 2017 09:11 |
Dear Friends & Helpers
Trying to trace marriage, between the above Thomas Field born 8th March 1845, and Mary Ann Frances Woodland born 4th January 1848.
All help and guidance would be appreciated.
Thanking you in anticipation.
With kind regards.
JOHN.
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