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The plot thickens, I will digest this tomorrow Thankyou very much where have you found all if this?

A John Kitchener married Elizabeth Eayres in 1821 witness Thomas Eayres.
Could Elizabeth have had a daughter before marriage making Louisa/Lucy maybe Louisa Earyes Kitchener!!

Maryb.

(see below on Ancestry, Northampton Baptisms, AQ)

(what say?, Elizabeth then Marries Kitchener, possible?)

Chris :)

Baptism
Lucy Eeet
Abt 1816 16 Jun 1816 Brigstock Barton Eeet)
Elizabeth Eayers

(clearer image below one)

Baptism
Lucy Eeet
Abt 1816 16 Jun 1816 Brigstock Barton Eeet,
Eliza Eayres


(wonder if them below)

Baptism
County Northamptonshire
Place Brigstock
Church name St Andrew
Register type Unspecified
Baptism date 02 Sep 1781
Person forename Barton
Person sex M
Father forename Barton
Father surname EET
Mother forename Reb


Baptism
County Northamptonshire
Place Brigstock
Church name St Andrew
Register type Unspecified
Baptism date 31 Aug 1788
Person forename Elizabeth
Person sex F
Father forename Sam
Father surname EYERS
Mother forename Mary


County Northamptonshire
Place Brigstock
Church name St Andrew
Register type Unspecified
Marriage date 25 Dec 1771
Groom forename Samuel
Groom surname EAYRES
Bride forename Mary
Bride surname MACE
Register note Banns

https://www.freereg.org.uk/


Death
ECTE, BARTON (79)
GRO Reference: 1856 D Quarter in THRAPSTON Volume 03B Page 109


Deaths Dec 1856 (>99%)
----------------------------------------------
EETE Barton Thrapston 3b 109


1851 (Find My Past)
Barton Elet Head Married Male 69 1782 Farmer (Of 110 Acres Employing 4 Labrs) Brigstock, Northamptonshire, England
Mary Elet Wife Married Female 53 1798 - Brigstock, Northamptonshire, England
Sarah Elet Daughter Unmarried Female 28 1823 Dressmaker Brigstock, Northamptonshire, England
Rebecca Elet Daughter Unmarried Female 26 1825 Dressmaker Brigstock, Northamptonshire, England
Mary A Elet Daughter Unmarried Female 21 1830 Domestic Brigstock, Northamptonshire, England
William B Elet Son Unmarried Male 19 1832 Farmer's Assistant Brigstock, Northamptonshire, England
Parish Brigstock
County Northamptonshire


Northamptonshire Marriages Transcription (Find My Past)

First name(s) BARTON
Last name EEETT
Marriage year 1822
Marriage day 28
Marriage month Nov
Marriage place BRIGSTOCK
Parish Brigstock
Spouse's first name(s) Mary
Spouse's last name Lowth


Baptism
County Northamptonshire
Place Brigstock
Church name Independent
Register type Unspecified
Baptism date 13 Jun 1831
Birth date 11 Jun 1831
Person forename William Barton
Person sex M
Person abode Brigstock NTH
Father forename Barton
Father surname EEETE
Father occupation Farmer
Mother forename Mary


Deaths Dec 1856 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------
EETE Mary Thrapston 3b 109

20 December 1856 - Northampton Mercury - Northampton, Northamptonshire

Death
At Brigstock, on the 12th instant, Mary, the beloved wife of Barton Eeet, farmer, aged 59.

Chris posted this possible birth:

England, Births & Baptisms 1538-1975 Transcription (Find My Past)

First name(s) Lucy
Last name Eayers
Gender Female
Baptism year 1816
Baptism date 1816
Place Brigstock
County Northamptonshire
Father's first name(s) Barton
Father's last name Eayers
Mother's first name(s) Elizabeth
----------------------------

Then an Elizabeth Eayres marries John Kitchener in 1821:

First name(s) ELIZABETH
Last name EAYRS
Marriage year 1821
Marriage day 22
Marriage month May
Marriage place BRIGSTOCK
Parish Brigstock
Marital status B
Spouse's first name(s) John
Spouse's last name Kitchener
Spouse's title -
Spouse's parish Brigstock
Event Type Marriage
By Banns or licence Banns
County Northamptonshire
-------------------------

So is that where the Kitchener name came from on Reuben's Baptism? From Louisa/ Lucy's mother?

Name: Reuben Eayrs Kitchener
Age: 0
Birth Date: Abt 1837
Baptism Date: 19 Feb 1837
Baptism Place: Brigstock, Northamptonshire, England
Parish as it Appears: Brigstock
Register Type: Parish Registers
Mother: Louisa Kitchener
--------------------------

1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Hall Hill, Brigstock, Thrapston, Northamptonshire, England

Elizabeth Kitchener Female 50 1791 Northamptonshire, England
William Kitchener Male 15 1826 Northamptonshire, England
Samuel Kitchener Male 13 1828 Northamptonshire, England
Eliza Kitchener Female 11 1830 Northamptonshire, England
Mary Eayrs Female 15 1826 Northamptonshire, England
David Eayrs Male 1 1840 Northamptonshire, England
-----------------------------

1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Hall Hill, Brigstock, Thrapston, Northamptonshire, England

Elizabeth Kitchener Head Widow Female 63 1788 Pauper Brigstock, Northamptonshire,
Mary Eayrs Daughter Unmarried Female 39 1812 Schoolmistress Brigstock, Northamptonshire
David Eayrs Grand Son - Male 11 1840 Scholar Brigstock, Northamptonshire, England
John Kitchener Grand Son - Male 2 1849 Scholar Brigstock, Northamptonshire, England

No, the death I posted can't be the boys' mother, unless the age is wrong. She would only have been 6 when Reuben was born!

Grasping at straws - perhaps the age on the death record is wrong - maybe should be 30, not 20.
The boys' mother presumably did die before the 1851 census date - unless she couldn't cope, and handed them over to Samuel and his wife.

(good find AG!)

Chris :)

Northamptonshire Burials Transcription (Find My Past)

First name(s) LOUISA
Last name EYRE
Birth year 1831
Death year 1851
Age 20
Burial year 1851
Burial day 04
Burial month Feb
Residence Sudborough
Parish SUDBOROUGH


(notes some Eayre, Eayres coming up, Sudborough 1851 FMP)

(OH dear!, Louisa Eayres there 1841 with Parents Thomas and Mary age 10)


below posted earlier, but no idea on Baptism!)

1841 (Find My Past)
Thrapston Union Workhouse, Thrapston, Thrapston Union, Northamptonshire
Eyers Reuben (4) (Illegitimate)
Eyers Charles (2) (same)
Eyers Lucy (20) Lace Maker
(says all Born in County)


(if her)

England, Births & Baptisms 1538-1975 Transcription (Find My Past)

First name(s) Lucy
Last name Eayers
Gender Female
Baptism year 1816
Baptism date 1816
Place Brigstock
County Northamptonshire
Father's first name(s) Barton
Father's last name Eayers
Mother's first name(s) Elizabeth

Death of Lucy / Louisa - after which the boys were taken in by Samuel Gowen:


Louisa Eayrs
England and Wales Death Registration Index 1837-2007
Name Louisa Eayrs
Event Type Death
Registration Quarter Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration Year 1851
Registration District Thrapston
County Northamptonshire
Event Place Thrapston, Northamptonshire, England
Volume 15
Page 271
Line Number 20


Age 20

Thankyou all so much I believe now that the Charles that died in 1842 was Esther and Charles son as they lived Leicester street I have digested this all, you have all been so helpful I believe now that Charles was in the workhouse on 1841 with his unmarried mum and possibly Rueben his brother but then on igi they both have different mothers? Isn't family history fun don't think I will be able to get back on this line I think if the archives gave info from 1841 that may help me.

In 1851 Reuben and Charles are living with Samuel - apologies if already posted:


Samuel Gowen
in the 1851 England Census
Name: Samuel Gowen
Age: 40
Estimated birth year: abt 1811
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Elizabeth Gowen
Gender: Male
Where born: Harwell, Lincolnshire, England
Civil Parish: Horncastle
County/Island: Lincolnshire
Country: England
Registration district: Horncastle
Sub-registration district: Wragby
ED, institution, or vessel: 8c
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 58
Piece: 2107
Folio: 115
Page Number: 18
Household Members:
Name Age
Samuel Gowen 40
Elizabeth Gowen 50
Mary Gowen 17
Eliza Gowen 9
John Baker 18
Edwin Wagstaff 16
Reuben Hare 16
Charles Hare 13



EDIT:
I see RG previously posted 1851 for this family.

Samuel Gowing / Gowen was a fellow chimney sweep, and his grand-daughter Rachel married Reuben Hare:



Samuel Gowen
in the 1871 England Census
Name: Samuel Gowen
Age: 62
Estimated birth year: abt 1809
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Elizabeth Gowen
Gender: Male
Where born: Horncastle, Lincolnshire, England
Civil Parish: Horncastle
Town: Horncastle
County/Island: Lincolnshire
Country: England
Registration district: Horncastle
Sub-registration district: Horncastle
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Household schedule number: 70
Piece: 3380
Folio: 32
Page Number: 15
Household Members:
Name Age
Samuel Gowen 62 - chimney sweep
Elizabeth Gowen 72
Rachel Martin 17 - grand-daughter
Maurice Beet 30 - servant, chimney sweep


Marriages Dec 1873 (>99%)
HARE Reuben Horncastle 7a 1157
Martin Rachel Horncastle 7a 1157

(well nothing jumping out!)

Not sure what else to suggest...

Chris :)

(Mornin' AQ, and apologies and thanks, didn't see them posted earlier. Will have a look round later, got to get some things in greenhouse here!, take it easy at work, lol, see ya later)

Chris :)

Morning Chris- off to work so no time to look into them. (Samuel Gowen was with them on 1851 census- Chimney Sweep master) These were the witnesses

Charles marriage 1867
Witnesses were:
Samuel Gowen
Jemima Dabbs

Reuben marriage 1873
Witnesses were:
Samuel Gawing
Mary Martin

Reuben marriage 1860
Witnesses were:
Sarah Bromfield
William Edden Sapcoat

(think you need a slow read through, to digest, might take time!, lol)

And a trip to Northants. Archives (re Workhouse) they have a Research Service also.

Chris :)

http://www3.northamptonshire.gov.uk/councilservices/archives-and-heritage/northamptonshire-archives/research-and-history/Pages/fees-and-charges.aspx


(who are the Witnesses on the two Marriages (those with Father Titis/Titus)

Sidami.

It appears that your Charles (that married Elizabeth Marshall) was not the son of Esther and Charles.

Charles, the son of Esther and Charles, likely died in 1842.

You have all been so helpful on this family I am still really unsure ?

Other information in the record of Reuben Hare and Rachel Martin
from England Marriages, 1538–1973
Name Reuben Hare
Birth Date 1841
Age 32
Spouse's Name Rachel Martin
Spouse's Birth Date 1853
Spouse's Age 20
Event Date 25 Dec 1873
Event Place Horncastle, Lincoln, England
Father's Name Titus Hare
Spouse's Father's Name John Martin.


m England Marriages, 1538–1973
Name Charles Hare
Birth Date 1841
Age 26
Spouse's Name Elizabeth Marshall
Spouse's Birth Date 1844
Spouse's Age 23
Event Date 1867
Event Place Horncastle, Lincoln, England
Father's Name Titus Hare
Spouse's Father's Name James Marshall

from familysearch.

I give up!!! Just try putting in Charles Hare,not known where born but approx. 1810 (Ester born 1816) There are rather a lot.
Eileen

If the boys were illegitimate, it's unlikely their father would've had their surname.

Reuben's marriage to Mary Lindsey McCall in 1860 states he was a chimney sweep, 23 years of age. Father- Charles Hare, Shoemaker

Second marriage to Rachel Martin in 1873- Reuben, labourer (Louth Road) is a bachelor! age 32. Father- Titus Hare, cordwainer.
-----------------------------

Charles marriage to Elizabeth Marshall 1867. Charles a chimney sweep age 26 (Louth Road). father Titus Hare, joiner

(right!, lol, so would it be that Sue has 2 different brothers Marriage Certs?...

Chris :)

(below posted by her earlier)

Chris this is why I am finding this all very confusing, I tried to research this family a few years ago, just come back to it and still none the wiser. I know Charles is buried in Horncastle he died 1904 age 63 so that makes his birth 1841 so I sent for the birth certificate and it came back as Charles Hare and Esther nee Masters the parents, then Charles got married and he gave his father as Titas?
I have the marriage certificate for that as well.So that confused me.

I know from the 1851 census that there was a Charles in Horncastle with Reuben, so I was taking it that they were brothers I did find on the 1841 census these 2 were in the workhouse in Thrapston ... I also found Esther was with Charles on the 1841 so the other one I found for 1841 with Charles and Reuben was maybe not the right family.

I also have the marriage certificate for Rueben giving his father in 1860 as Charles deceased? So I am still none the wiser , are Charles and Rueben brothers? Family history does stop you sleeping.


(and No, can't see a Titus/Titis either)