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Lol, you can't afford kitchens and holidays, you need that other Marriage Cert. of his, I reckon!...

(nothing else found, trembles as November approaches, lol lol)

Chris :)

Just to let you all know...not ignoring this thread! Having a new kitchen fitted whilst on holiday in October and so my evening hours are spent emptying the old kitchen in readiness! Probably back on this in November :-)

(all those Welsh Marriages on FMP. and not below!, to see what it gives)

Marriages Mar 1865 (>99%)
---------------------------------------------
Harries William Neath 11a 583
Lewis Hannah Neath 11a 583

Chris :)

(things 'Veterinary' are often in newspaper reports, when they are called to cases)

Errmm?...(lol)

(adds, that address seems to be Red Cow Village, St. David, Exeter on Census, not that a Harris is shouting out, lol)

Chris :)

Devon Baptisms Transcription (Find My Past)

First name(s) Martha Gertrude
Last name Shoebrook
Birth year 1865
Birth date 03 Sep 1865
Baptism year 1870
Baptism date 28 Dec 1870
Denomination Anglican
Baptism place Exeter, St David
Father's first name(s) Samuel (occ. Tailor)
Mother's first name(s) Martha
County Devon


1891 (Find My Past)
Samuel Shoebrook Head Married Male 74 1817 Tailor Devon, England
Martha Shoebrook Wife Married Female 64 1827 - London, Middlesex, England
Martha G Shoebrook Daughter Single Female 25 1866 Tailoress Devon, England
Melinda Davies Sister In Law Single Female 80 1811 Living On Her Own Means Devon, England
Street Bartholomew Street
Town Exeter
Parish Exeter
City Exeter
County Devon
Registration district Exeter
Archive reference RG12
Piece number 1692
Folio 67
Page 14


Deaths Mar 1898 (>99%)
---------------------------------------------------------
Shoebrook Samuel 81 St. Thomas 5b 45


Shoebrook Samuel 1817 1898 Devon Burials Exeter, St David, Devon, England

(January 13th. Abode, Atwill's Almshouses)


15 September 1916 - Western Times - Exeter, Devon, England

Death
Shoebrook - September 8th, at 13, Attwill's Cottages, Martha Shoebrook aged 90.

OK the marriage certificate finally came....William was indeed a widower and aged 59 in 1897 - so that all fits with William/Hannah.

His father was William (deceased) a veterinary surgeon.

One of the witnesses was Sarah Jane Harris. At the time of the marriage, he gives his address as 4 Redlow Village Exeter.

I also bought William and Martha's wills...not exactly illuminating :-(

Not got time to follow this up myself until next week...so if anyone is interested!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jude

:-) looks good, Chris....I thought age difference gave a chance he was a widower...know tomorrow, hopefully, for sure

Jude

(well, seeing below!)...

Chris :)

1891 (Find My Past)
William Harries Head Married Male 54 1837 Contractors (Build) Labourer Glamorgan (Cardiff) Wales
Hannah Harries Wife Married Female 43 1848 - Glamorgan (Swansea) Wales
Mary H Harries Daughter Single Female 15 1876 - Glamorgan (Neath) Wales
John Harries Son - Male 12 1879 Scholar Glamorgan (Neath) Wales
George Harries Son - Male 8 1883 Scholar Glamorgan (Neath) Wales
Street Mount Pleasant (14 on image)
Town Neath
Parish Neath
City Neath
County Glamorganshire
Registration district Neath
Archive reference RG12
Piece number 4461
Folio 79
Page 24


(if them above)

HARRIS, MARY HANNAH (LEWIS)
GRO Reference: 1877 J Quarter in NEATH Volume 11A Page 622

HARRIS, GEORGE (LEWIS)
GRO Reference: 1884 M Quarter in NEATH Volume 11A Page 638

(one of below)

HARRIS, JOHN (LEWIS)
GRO Reference: 1876 S Quarter in NEATH Volume 11A Page 588

HARRIS, JOHN (LEWIS) (would say this one?)
GRO Reference: 1880 J Quarter in NEATH Volume 11A Page 582


Deaths Mar 1895 (>99%)
-----------------------------------------------
Harris Hannah 49 Neath 11a 603


National Burial Index for England & Wales Transcription (Find My Past)

First name(s) Hannah
Last name Harris
Age 49
Birth year 1846
Death year 1895
Burial year 1895
Burial date 04 Mar 1895
Church St Thomas
Denomination Anglican
Place Neath
County Glamorganshire


Burial
County Glamorgan
Place Neath
Church name St David
Register type Parish Register
Burial date 04 Mar 1895
Person age 49
Burial person forename Hannah
Burial person surname HARRIS
Burial person abode Mount Pleasant

https://www.freereg.org.uk/


1881 (Find My Past)
Hannah Harris Wife Head Married Female 34 1847 General Labourer Wife Swansea, Glamorgan, Wales
Charles Harris Son Single Male 16 1865 Labourer On Railway Briton Ferry, Glamorgan, Wales
William J Harris Son Single Male 14 1867 Bricklayers Labourer Pembrokeshire (Milford) Wales
Margaret I Harris Daughter Single Female 10 1871 Scholar Swansea, Glamorgan, Wales
Thomas Harris Son Single Male 7 1874 Scholar Neath, Glamorgan, Wales
Mary H Harris Daughter Single Female 4 1877 Scholar Neath, Glamorgan, Wales
John Harris Son Single Male 1 1880 - Neath, Glamorgan, Wales
House number 4
Street Pleasant Road
Parish Neath
County Glamorganshire
Country Wales
Registration district Neath
Archive reference RG11
Piece number 5339
Folio 86
Page 19


1871 (Find My Past)
William Harris Head - Male 28 1843 - Glamorgan, Wales (Labourer)
Hannah Harris Wife - Female 24 1847 - Glamorgan, Wales
William J Harris Son - Male 3 1868 - Pembrokeshire, Wales
David Lewis Boarder - Male 30 1841 - Glamorgan, Wales (Tailor)
Street Baptist Well Street
Parish Swansea
Town Swansea
City Swansea
County Glamorganshire
Country Wales
Registration district Swansea
Archive reference RG10
Piece number 5456
Folio 16
Page 25


Birth
HARRIS, CHARLES (LEWIS)
GRO Reference: 1865 J Quarter in NEATH Volume 11A Page 520

Birth
HARRIES, MARGARET JANE (LEWIS)
GRO Reference: 1871 D Quarter in SWANSEA Volume 11A Page 593


(below Marriage image FMP, Father William Harris, occ. Foreman. Abode, Mount Pleasant, a Witness. Ann Harris)

Harris Mary Anna 1876 — 1896 Glamorganshire Marriages And Banns Neath, St Thomas, Glamorganshire, Wales (Spouse, Joseph Mort)


The South Wales Daily Post
(Extra Speciall) 4th April 1900

NOTICE - I, the undersigned, hereby give notice that I will not from this date (April 4th, 1900), be responsible for any debts incurred by my wife. - Signed, Joseph Mort, Neath.


http://www.newportpast.com/records/directories/johns1938/search.php?road=COMMERCIAL%20ROAD

Johns' 1938 Newport Street Directory:
134 Olive Branch, Joseph P. Mort


Edits

Marriages Mar 1865 (>99%)
---------------------------------------------
Harries William Neath 11a 583
Lewis Hannah Neath 11a 583


Harries William John 1868 — 1868 Pembrokeshire Baptisms Steynton, Pembrokeshire, Wales

(FMP has image of above Aug. 9th, also same time, Charles. Father William occ. Labourer. Abode Milford. Mother Ann)


(possibly her below)

(1861, Hannah Lewis, 4, Pleasant Street, Swansea, Father John Lewis occ. Tailor)

So Fred's birth certificate came and confirms his parents as WilliamHarris and Martha Gertrude Harris formerly Shoebrook. Occupation of William Bridge Foreman. He was declarant and signs as William G. Harris. The address looks like 14 Mount Pleasant Neath.

Update again, tomorrow hopefully, when the marriage certificate comes

Jude

Have sent for the certificates; will update when they arrive.

Chris thanks for the probates - hadn't got that far :-) William Edward Huxter does not appear to have any familial connection..he ended up living in Glasllwch Crescent Newport (he named his house Tottenham)! I wonder if he worked with William?

Jude

That 1923 probate posted by Chris:

William Harris, of 21 Bond Street, Newport, Monmouthshire.
Probate to Fred Harris, portable engine driver, and William Edward Huxter, supervising foreman.


In 1911 (if relevant) there's a William Edward Huxter, 1887, born Plaistow, living in Tottenham - he's a timekeeper, which I imagine is much the same as a supervising foreman.

Just in case there's any link - though probably not:

???

Tom Searle
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Tom Searle
Age in 1911: 41
Estimated birth year: abt 1870
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Crediton, Devon
Civil Parish: Crediton
County/Island: Devon
Country: England
Street address: Stanley Villa, 4 Western Rd, Crediton
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: House Painter <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Registration district: Crediton
Registration District Number: 281
Sub-registration district: Crediton
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Household schedule number: 37
Piece: 13193
Household Members:
Name Age
Tom Searle 41
Emilie Searle 42
Freda Emilie Searle 8

(quick, lol, to Fred on belowl)

Chris :)

William Harris
17 Sep 1923 Monmouthshire, Wales 1923

Edits

Deaths Sep 1923 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------
HARRIS William 80 Newport M 11a 172

???

Deaths Dec 1926 (>99%)
Harris William 78 Exeter 5b 101

If that's him, there's no mention of bridge building or any other occupation at probate.
Address: 3 Codrington street, Exeter.
Probate to Tom Searle, decorator.

Well, William was still alive at Martha's death.
Probate of her Will was to him, and she's "wife of William Harris".

(sorry, posting quick, as can't stay, but see below, same address as Service Record, William Harris, Bridge Builder)

Chris :)

(Ancestry)

Probate
Martha Gertrude Harris
14 May 1920 Monmouthshire, Wales 1920

(or on below)

https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/#calendar


Deaths Jun 1920 (>99%)
-----------------------------------------------------------
HARRIS Martha G 54 Newport M. 11a 237

Yeah thinking of getting it

Unless someone has the patience to trawl through all the William Harrises in earlier census, looking for a bridge builder or similar, I think you'll need the marriage cert for his father's name, Jude.

There are such a lot of William Harrises, and we don't have an exact YOB or POB for him.

OK - so . . . for reference -

Births Sep 1865 (>99%)
Shoebrook Martha Gertrude Exeter 5b 102


Marriages Jun 1897 (>99%)
Harris William Exeter 5b 190
Shoebrook Martha Gertrude Exeter 5b 190



Martha Harris
in the 1901 England Census
Name: Martha Harris
Age: 36
Estimated birth year: abt 1865
Relation to Head: Wife
Gender: Female
Spouse: William Harris
Birth Place: Exeter, Devon, England
Civil Parish: Exeter
Ecclesiastical parish: St David
County/Island: Devon
Country: England
Street address:
Occupation:
Registration district: Exeter
Sub-registration district: Exeter
ED, institution, or vessel: 20
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 2044
Folio: 55
Page Number: 42
Household schedule number: 318
Household Members:
Name Age
William Harris 58 - Exeter 1843, Bridge builder
Martha Harris 36
Fred Harris 3
Wallace Harris 1




William Harris
in the 1911 England Census
Name: William Harris
Age in 1911: 66
Estimated birth year: abt 1845
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Cardiff
Civil Parish: Exeter
County/Island: Devon
Country: England
Street address: 5 King Edward Street, Exeter
Marital Status: Married
Years Married: 14
Estimated Marriage Year: 1897
Occupation: Contractor Forman
Registration district: Exeter
Registration District Number: 271
Sub-registration district: Exeter
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Household schedule number: 110
Piece: 12669
Household Members:
Name Age
William Harris 66
Martha Harris 44
Fred Harris 13
Wallace Harris 9
Edward Harris 6
Ralph Harris 4


Ralph (1906) seems to have been their last child.

Made the classic mistake of taking my cousin's tree as read :-(

Re tracked today....his grandfather was Frederick and his mother was Martha..from a WW1 military record where the address matched the address of his marriage. But his father, on the certificate which I have, is William a bridge builder. Frederick was born in Neath.

So have found marriage of William to Martha (Gertrude Shoebrook) and have found them in 1901 (him born Exeter, where they married) and in 1911 (him born Cardiff).

So can anyone find him before 1901? I believe he was born 1843 to her 1865...so maybe he was married before? Thinking of getting certificate to clarify. So only "bridge builder/constructor to go on..

I don't know when he died..she is shown as NOK in 1919 but whether this is relevant or not I do not know

Jude

Interesting......1901 census has him a a watchmaker....have based this on my cousin's tree (his family as opposed to mine)
....quick rethink needed