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Valerie

Do you know when Mary Leary was born, I cant remember if we established that?

Hi Gins (again!)
If you still have time - may I ask another favour please?

Re my John Brien & Mary Brien (nee Leary) of Dunmanway/Bandon/Cork .
-.the chn you found (thank you) (b1829-1837) had 'Leary' Sponsers:
Js Leary
Conor Leary
Ellen Leary
can you see any link with my Mary (nee Leary) brothers/sister?)

Also ..only if you have time ....can you see any 'Hourihan-O'Briens' ..supposedly we ORIGINALLY had hyphenated name!
...I have on file (1) (Timothy O'Brien-Hourihan b Leap c1800's).

Finally - I must say how grateful I've been for your help already given. Thanks again - Valerie

Thanks AustinQ. Learning something new every day :-)

Googling brings up a few results that explain:

The old Pensear site is now called http://www.ireland-genealogy.com/ . This is a census substitute site that has some census records from 1841/1851 for over 70's who applied for their pension after 1908.

Can someone clarify what "Pensear" is for me please? I've never heard of it before.

Ahh, yes, thanks Erin- I thought it was probably to prove parentage or age. I'd not heard of Pensear, but that makes sense now.

AustinQ

Re your post 8 Sept.19.07...I think the details are from the "old" Pension Application Site "Pensear"...and there is this one also...



STOTHERS Sarah John STOTHERS Rachel STOTHERS Annaghmore Loughgall Oneilland W. Armagh 1917 - Mrs Sarah Mulholland, Coragh, Loughgall, Armagh.

I still think that they are all related to one another. Quite possible the 2 Williams were first cousins. We don't know when Mary Quin died so it's always possible that Jane wasn't sure which of William's wives was her mother especially if she was very young when Mary died. All I know for sure is that William and Mary were both deceased when John married for the second time in 1886. We know too that as Mary died after Samuel's birth in 1862 her death must be registered but there are so many Mary Mulhollands and we don't have an idea of her birth year. All things considered AustinQ and Gins you have both helped enormously with my Irish ancestors.

I think my next step is to spend a day at the Scotlandspeople Centre looking at all the Mulholland BMDs in that area from the start of statutory registration until the early 1900s. I know that my lot remained in that area until at least the 1970s maybe even the 1980s. I suspect that my Mum was the last of John and Jane's grandchildren and she passed away 3 years ago. My Mum didn't have much contact with her father's family as John died in 1912 and Jane in 1934 and Mum's Dad died in 1959. Of all her father's siblings, she was probably closest to his youngest brother, John who died childless in the late 60s. I never met any of Mum's cousins on her Dad's side.

Well at least we know. :-(

I haven't given up! We may get there by process of elimination.

I'll have a look back through the thread, and have another dig after my breakfast.

Just looked at Jane's death registration. F. William Mulholland m. Isabella Mulholland maiden name DALE.

So Jane and Joseph are brother and sister and their father William can't be the William that's my John's father as he was married to Mary Quin when Jane was born!

Back to the drawing board. Looks like two different families.

Interestingly, Jane's married surname on her death registration is Milligan. One of John's daughters married a William Milligan. I wonder if he was a grandson of Jane as they all lived in the same area.

Good find AustinQ.

So to recap, we have

Eliza, b ? Married 1873, f. William, m. Not named

Isaac b. 1847, f. William m. Not named

Joseph b. Abt 1851 f. William, m. Isabella Dab

Jane b. Abt.1858 f. William, m. Not named

John b. 1861 f. William, m. Mary Quin

Samuel, b. 1862 f. William, m. Mary Quin

Need to add this:

This family also living on Francis Street :

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Francis Street, Govan, Tradeston, Lanarkshire, Scotland

William Mulligan Head Married Male 37 1854 Coal Dealer Ireland
Jane Mulligan Wife Married Female 33 1858 - Ireland
John Mulligan Son Unmarried Male 13 1878 Coal Dealer Ireland
William Mulligan Son Unmarried Male 7 1884 Scholar Lanarkshire, Scotland
Bell Mulligan Daughter Unmarried Female 2 1889 - Lanarkshire, Scotland
James Mulligan Son Unmarried Male 4 1887 - Lanarkshire, Scotland
Joseph Mulligan Son Unmarried Male 0 1891 - Ireland
Thomas Dugan Boarder Unmarried Male 20 1871 Gen Labourer Ireland
John Elliot Boarder Unmarried Male 61 1830 Gen Labourer Lanarkshire, Scotland
----------------------------------------------

Their marriage:

Date of Marriage: 15-Feb-1877  
Parish / District: ANNAGHMORE CI County: ARMAGH

Name: William Mulligan
Address: Loughgall Parish Of Loughgall
Denomination: Civil Parish / District
Occupation: LABOURER
Age: Fa (full age)
Status: Bachelor (Previously unmarried)
Father: Warnough Mulligan
Occupation: LABOURER

Jane Mulholland
Address: Ardress Parish Of Annaghmore
Denomination: Civil Parish / District
Age: M (Minor)
Status: Spinster (Previously unmarried)
Father: William Mulholland
Occupation: LABOURER

Witnesses: John Mullholland & Mary Mulholland
------------------------

Various births for children on Ancestry confirming Jane's maiden name was Mulholland.

I think that's the record I posted earlier from FMP.

It's an application for a copy of the 1841/ 1851 census. Not sure why- perhaps to prove parentage for something?

The application was made in 1915- but I found it confusing because mother was Roseanne:

Ireland Census search forms 1841 & 1851 Transcription
DATE OF RECEIPT: 16/ 11/ 15

Name of applicant: Isaac Mulholland
Address: Mrs Sarah Mulholland, Derrycrew, Loughgall
Names of Father and mother of applicant: Wm Mulholland & Roseanne Mulholland

County Armagh
Barony: Oneilland West
Townland Derrycrew.
----------------------------

I'll be around tomorrow- we'll keep chipping away!

Wonder if this is our William here with Isaac? Doesn't give ages or anything to help.


Census details
First name(s) Wm
Last name Mulholland
Census year 1841
Relationship Father
Townland Derrycrew
Parish Loughgall
Barony Oneilland West
County Armagh
Country Ireland
Record set Ireland Census Search Forms 1841 & 1851
Category Census, land & surveys
Subcategory Census
Collections from Ireland

Isaac is described as "Applicant"

I've got to do dinner and then go out for a few hours but will check back later.

I do think we are making progress. I feel fairly certain that Joseph and John are half brothers. I suspect that Isaac is too.

Hold on- might be something- will check later- this on FMP:

Ireland Diocesan and Prerogative Marriage Licence Bonds indexes 1623-1866 Transcription

First name(s) William
Last name Mulholland
Year 1840
Diocese Armagh
Spouse's first name(s) Isabella
Spouse's last name Dalzell
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Parish Marriages

Darn it! I felt we were close to finding a connection.

At the moment I don't see any children born to William Mulholland and Isabella anything.

I also don't see a marriage for a William Mulholland to Isabella in the right time frame.

I'm having a brain rest- I'll check back in later.

Here we go. Joseph Mulholland, Railway Gatekeeper married to 1st. Jane (looks like) Chilow 2nd. Annie Eliza Dunlop. Died aged 72 years At Belvidere Hospital Removed from 438 Crown Street. Father William Mulholland, Farm Labourer and mother Isabella Mulholland maiden surname Dab (could that be Dali?) both deceased.Informant, son, William Mulholland 84 West Street, Portadown, Ireland.


So that looks like Joseph may have been a half brother to my John? if we could find his father's first marriage that would tie it all in nicely. probably to good to be true lol.

OH! good find AustinQ. Will just checkout that death now. Just in the passing - Samuel b. 1880 also married a Dunlop, Jeanie (Agnes Jane) Back in a few minutes.

Certainly seems to fit as here is the birth of Joseph's son John who is on the 1911 census:

Name John Mullholland
Gender Male
Birth Date 15 Nov 1881
Birthplace Tradeston, Lanark, Scotland
Father's Name Joseph Mullholland
Mother's Name Ann Clulow Mullholland

So, it just depends on what parents were listed on Joseph's death cert in 1923.