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I have also had a PM confirming father was Richard, a buiscuit baker.

I e-mailed Norman and asked him to come back to the thread. Received this message:

Most of the information found for me is correct.
Sadly it does not get me any closer to Alicia Jennings although one message suggested a family of Jennings in Essex but no Alicia.
Many Thanks
Norman Earl

Ah, well, that explains the Eliza factor - wish we'd known that at the start.

EDIT:
Well, it sort of does.
Does that mean Eliza and Letitia are one and the same?

Not that it matters - our search is for Alicia.

There are many possibilities - without any further info, it's pretty well impossible to know which one might be the right one. She may not have belonged to London. She may have moved away from London after RT's birth.

One possibility - she's a cook at the Officers' Quarters, Royal Arsenal, Woolwich. (But no reason to think this is her.):


Alice Jennings
in the 1891 England Census
Name: Alice Jennings
Age: 36
Estimated birth year: abt 1855
Relation: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Rochester, Kent, England
Civil Parish: Woolwich
Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Trinity
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address:
Registration district: Woolwich
Sub registration district: Woolwich Arsenal
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 532
Folio: 113
Page Number: 10
Household Members:
Name Age
Gerald G Keleart 36
Alice Jennings 36

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/trying_to_find/earl/thread/1231338?d=asc

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/trying_to_find/jennings/thread/1251372?d=asc

(Previous relating here)

Chris :)


Norman Report 22 Jul 2010 20:50

Deperately trying to trace my father's mother. Birth Cert gives her name as Alicia Earl formerly Jennings. Date of birth 4/7/1885. Salmon Lane London. No record of a marriage, birth or anything. My father's father was married to Eliza James at the time and I know she existed because she lived with us until her death in 1940, although her birth and background are cloudy.

To rule out another contender for Letitia / Eliza -

The father of Eliza Jennings born Benfleet, as posted earlier by GG, was Elijah, not Harry. (Per 1881 census).

Walter Jennings
in the 1881 England Census
Name: Walter Jennings
Age: 13
Estimated birth year: abt 1868
Relationship to Head: Son
Father: Elijah Jennings
Mother: Maria Jennings
Gender: Male
Where born: South Benfleet, Essex, England
Civil Parish: South Benfleet
County/Island: Essex
Country: England
Street address: Hopes Green
Occupation: Farm Boy
Registration district: Rochford
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1768
Folio: 40
Page Number: 4
Household Members:
Name Age
Elijah Jennings 40
Maria Jennings 38
Walter Jennings 13
Alfred Jennings 10
Frederick Jennings 7
Arthur Jennings 2

(below I posted earlier, but on UK, Army Registers of Soldiers' Effects, 1901-1929 (Ancestry) 'To whom Authorised' (says) Fa - Alfred)

Chris :)

Soldiers died in the Great War 1914-1919 Transcription (Find My Past)

First name(s) Richard Thomas
Last name Earl
Service number 19369
Rank L/cpl
Regiment King's Own (Yorkshire Light Infantry)
Battalion 9th Battalion.
Birth place Limehouse, London
Enlistment place Maidenhead
Death year 1915
Death day 27
Death month 9


Edits (looking more like below Birth, for above, on 1911 Limehouse with Father Alfred)

Births Jun 1896 (>99%)
------------------------------------------------------
Earl Richard Thomas Stepney 1c 444

(just to 'sort' him, lol)

Depending on when Norman was born........he could very well be the "Closed Record" on the 1939 register?

Trouble is PH, Norman needs to come back and confirm the father's details from the BC - everything so far (apart from 1939 register confirming dob, albiet a year out) is conjecture at the moment. How someone can go from Alicia to Latitia to Eliza is rather dubious.

I seem to be going round in circles on this one!

:-S

???
Richard
Last name Earl
Marriage year 1848
Marriage year as transcribed 1848
Marriage date 09 Jul 1848
Marriage place Minster in Sheppey
Spouse's first name(s) Alice
Spouse's last name Bird
Groom's first name Richard
Groom's last name Earl
Groom's age Full Age
Groom's marital status Bachelor
Groom's occupation Corker
Groom's residence Sheerness
Groom's father's name James
Groom's father's occupation Corker
Bride's first name Alice
Bride's last name Bird
Bride's age Full Age
Bride's marital status Spinster
Bride's residence Sheerness
Bride's father's name William
Bride's father's occupation Laborer
Banns or licence Banns
County Kent
Record source Minster (Sheppey) marriages 1837-1884
Record set Kent Marriages
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Marriages & divorces
Collections from England, Great Britain

Wondering on below, born Limehouse?...

Chris :)

Soldiers died in the Great War 1914-1919 Transcription (Find My Past)

First name(s) Richard Thomas
Last name Earl
Service number 19369
Rank L/cpl
Regiment King's Own (Yorkshire Light Infantry)
Battalion 9th Battalion.
Birth place Limehouse, London
Enlistment place Maidenhead
Death year 1915
Death day 27
Death month 9


Edits (from google, query relating to Edward Earl)

https://www.ancestry.com/boards/thread.aspx?mv=flat&m=10765&p=localities.britisles.england.mdx.general

1871 /???????
Russell Street Aynho Place, Bromley St Leonard, Poplar, London, England

Learn more
Print transcription View image
Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Richard Thomas Earl Head - Male 45 1826 - Kent, England
occupation caulker

Alice Earl Wife - Female 42 1829 - Kent, England
Transcription
Alice Earl Daughter - Female 14 1857 - Middlesex, England
born in poplar

Richard Thos Earl Son - Male 9 1862 - Kent,

Alfred Earl Son - Male 7 1864 - Kent, England
Transcription
Henry Earl Son - Male 5 1866 - Kent, England
Transcription

1881
16, Anchor Street, Limehouse, Stepney, London, England

Learn more
Print transcription View image
Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Richard Earl Head Married Male 55 1826 Ship Caulker Shipbuilder Kent, England
Transcription
Alice Earl Wife Married Female 32 1849 - Sheerness, Kent, England
Transcription
Richard Earl Son Single Male 19 1862 Laborer At Buiscuit Docks Baker Woolwich, Kent, England
Transcription
Alice Earl Daughter Single Female 24 1857 - Poplar, Middlesex, England
Transcription
Albert Earl Son Single Male 17 1864 Labour In Color Works Woolwich, Kent, England
Transcription
Henry Earl Son Single Male 15 1866 Labour In Rope Factory Woolwich, Kent, England
Transcription
Edward Earl Son Single Male 13 1868 Scholar Woolwich, Kent, England

Posting the marriage record for information........

Richard Earl in the London, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
Name: Richard Earl (Bachelor) Biscuit Maker...12 Turner Street, Commercial Road
Estimated birth year: abt 1861
Age: 23
Spouse: Eliza James (Spinster) Umbrella Maker....4 Sheridan Street, Commercial Road
Spouse Age: 23
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 26 Jan 1884
Parish: St Thomas, Bethnal Green
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Father Name: Richard Earl (Ship... Coker?)
Spouse Father: Henry James (Boot Maker)
Register Type: Parish Register
Witnesses: William Obeny?? and Elizabeth Smith

?? (Elizabeth to distinguish from the other Servant Eliza - no Elizabeth Ann birth Rochford RD)

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Hartlands House, The Village, Cranford, Staines, Middlesex, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
James Montgomrey Head Married Male 69 1812 J.P.& D.L.County Of Middx (No Occ) Brentford, Middlesex, England
Henrietta Montgomrey Wife Married Female 63 1818 - Lambeth, Surrey, England
Laura Henrietta Montgomrey Daughter Single Female 28 1853 - Brentford, Middlesex, England
Frederick William Sim Nephew Single Male 32 1849 Barrister At Law Paddington, Middlesex, England
William Byron Bryant Servant Single Male 46 1835 Butler Domestic Serv Bloomsbury, Middlesex,
Eliza Farrell Servant Single Female 32 1849 Cook Domestic Serv New Brighton, Cheshire, England
Mary Ann Ashman Servant Single Female 43 1838 Ladysmaid Domestic Serv Taunton, Somerset, England
Drusilla Heath Servant Single Female 30 1851 Housemaid Domestic Serv Iver, Buckinghamshire,
Eliza Jane Childs Servant Single Female 26 1855 Housemaid Domestic Ser Southsea, Hampshire,
Elizabeth Ann Jennings Servant Single Female 19 1862 Kitchenmaid Domestic Ser South Benfleet, Essex, <<<<<<<<<<
Charles W Savage Servant Single Male 22 1859 Groom Domestic Ser Clapham, Surrey, England

Rochford RD covers Southend and also South Benfleet which are about 4 miles apart

??
Births Mar 1863 (>99%)
JENNINGS Eliza Ann Rochford 4a 183

-------------------------------------------
??
1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription

On the Green, South Benfleet, Rochford, Essex, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Maria Jennings Wife - Female 28 1843 - Essex, England
Eliza Jennings Daughter - Female 8 1863 - Essex, England
Jane Jennings Daughter - Female 6 1865 - Essex, England
Walter Jennings Son - Male 3 1868 - Essex, England
George Jennings Son - Male 10 1861 - Essex, England

All born South Benfleet

only femaile earl death i can find in luton born 1860
ISABELLA L
Last name EARL
Gender Female
Birth day -
Birth month -
Birth year 1860
Age 80
Death quarter 4
Death year 1940
District Luton
County Bedfordshire
Volume 3B
Page 1088

maybe
Deaths Dec 1929
Earl Elizabeth 45 Luton 3b 440


Marriages Sep 1930
Blower Maud Earl Luton 3b 1114
Earl Richard T Blower Luton 3b 1114

Births Jun 1925
Blower Gladys M Blower Hackney 1b 65

she is Gladys M

Marriages Dec 1945
Earl Gladys M Morgan Luton 3b 1135
Morgan Edgar G

Richard T Earl on the 1939 Register

Earl Household (5 People) 351 Hitchin Road , Luton M.B., Bedfordshire, England

Richard T Earl 04 Jul 1884 Motor Driver (Married)
Maud Earl 26 Dec 1897 Unpaid Domestic Duty (Married)
Letitia Earl 24 Oct 1860 Incapacitated (Widow) ***
Gladys Morgan (Earl) 20 Apr 1925 Millinery Prentice
One Closed Record


EARL, RICHARD THOMAS MMN JENNINGS
GRO Reference: 1885 S Quarter in STEPNEY Volume 01C Page 398

Here as Eliza not Letitia but said to be born Mile End not Southend as previously. Ages of her and husband change over the years !

1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
112 Coutt's Road Mile End E, Mile End Old Town, London, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Occupation Age Birth year Birth place
Richard Earl Head Married Male Master Baker 49 1862 London Mile End
Eliza Earl Wife Married Female - 50 1861 London Mile End
George Wilson Boarder Single Male Labourer 51 1860 Kent Mile End Woolwich

Married 27 years. 5 children born 1 still living, 4 have died

is this him in 1911

Name: Richard Earl
Age in 1911: 25
Estimated birth year: abt 1886
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Stepney
Civil Parish: Mile End Old Town
Search Photos: Search for 'Mile End Old Town' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 14 Cordelia St, South Grove, Mile End, Bow E
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: MOTOR TYRE MAKER
Registration district: Mile End Old Town
Registration District Number: 21
Sub-registration district: Mile End Old Town North Eastern
ED, institution, or vessel: 21
Piece: 1637
Household Members:
Name Age
Richard Earl 25
Elizabeth Earl 26
Elizabeth Earl 4
Thomas Earl 1
married 6 years 3 children born 2 still living

Marriages Mar 1905
Earl Richard Thomas Mile End 1c 439
WORBY Elizabeth Mile End 1c 439