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Yes, Thomas was a widower when he married Jane Breen (sometimes Brien) of Drumbrick. They married in Colaghty Church in July 1856. After Jane died, Thomas married again to Isabella Virtue. Before he married Jane there is a marriage to Mary (??) - a baptism of a child (name illegible) born in January 1848 and baptised in February 1848, to parents Thomas (Croneen farmer) and Mary.

As to Thomas' father, Robert, I estimated his dob as about 1799 and have found four baptisms for children born to Robert & Anne, plus a death for Robert in 1869 (age 77). This is the only information that fit with the dates for Robert and of course it could all be baloney.

Thanks for your interest in this.

Yvonne.....Thank You for clarifying the Marriage. Was Thomas (Croneen) a widower prior to marrying Jane Breen or did she have another name eg.Mary Jane and what date do you have for their Marriage..and was it at Ardess or Colaghty Church....?
I may be able to go back from Thomas'father with those details.
Colaghty Church opened in 1846 prior to that it was St Mary's Ardess.

The Virtue's are easier to follow as the surname remained as such .

Protestant Church records (Bpatisms) didn't show the maiden name of the mother but its not to difficult to work out who was who if they stayed in the same areas.

Yes, Isabella Catherine Speer married Robert John Virtue. Robert died in Ireland and then in 1929 Isabella immigrated to Canada.

Sorry for the mix up - there are so many Virtues and Irvings in that area.

Just looking at this again and I think it should've been Virtue not Irvine. I'll have to check for sure but I think I was just getting a bit muddled. So sorry about that.

Thanks.

Isabella Catherine definitely married Robert John Irvine in 1891 (certs. & family info). They had five children. After Robert died she immigrated to Canada with one of her sons, to join another son who was already in Canada. The parents of my g grandfather, Thomas b. 1864, and his sister, Isabella Catherine b. 1868, were Thomas Speer and Jane Breen. I have the marriage cert. for Thomas and Jane and his father was given as Robert. Then I hit the brick wall.

I know for sure that my g grandfather b. 1864 is buried in Liverpool but his father is buried in Fermanagh. I have a copy of his will in which he bequeaths something to my grandfather (and yes, he was a farmer in Croneen).

Thanks.

Yvonne...Are you certain Isabella Cath. married Rbt. J Irvine....??

The only marriage I can locate is an Isabella Catherine Speer daughter of Thomas (farmer) Croneen marrying a Rbt.John Virtue son of Rbt.by licence Jan 1891....I ask this because unless you have definitive Primary Source info .you could be find your searching for the wrong Speers Family...many of the Speers(variations) also used St Mary's Ardess Church that is in Kesh a stones throw from the area you are going to....plenty of burials to check out in their graveyard.

My family were not RC. My g grandfather (b. 1864) left Fermanagh and went to live in Liverpool, where he died and is buried. His sister, Isabella Catherine, married Robert John Irvine and after Robert died she left for Canada to join her two sons. I think there may have been two other siblings but one died young and I have no idea what happened to the other one. As to the name variations - to my knowledge we have had Speer, Speers, Speir, Speirs and Spiers.

Thanks again.

Yvonne....Which Speers /Spiers (variations ) family are you descended from as there were Speers/Spiers still farming in Croneen 1901/1911 Census....

Croneen was 149acres

Croneen Barr was 165 acres and the families there in 1901/1911 were RC and no Spiers

The distance between the two "places"




Croneen Barr (Magheraculmoney), Fermanagh is 3.5 miles ( 5.7 Km) E of Croneen, Fermanagh

No, I hadn't seen these. They certainly look interesting and I'll definitely be looking into them in detail.
Thanks so much for this.

Yvonne.....Have you seen these..?

http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=malise&id=I17672

http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=malise&id=I1058

Thanks Joonie. It looks like the places are all fairly close together ... and hubby doesn't mind driving, so should all come together.

I'm excited.

You're welcome, Yvonne! And enjoy the trip!

And if you want to check it out in advance,

http://tinyurl.com/yauuh7t4

The road signs up ahead point straight ahead for Lack, and left for Ederney.

Oops, the road to Ederney wasn't filmed until the next time out. This is the same intersection, heading in that direction.

http://tinyurl.com/yaak2tbd

They are my Speer/Speir/Spiers ancestors.

Yvonne. What is the name of the Ancestors ?

Thanks Joonie, that's really helpful. It looks like I can easily put these places together. I'm quite excited about it.

Hi Yvonne,

here is a google map showing three of the place names mentioned (Ederney, Lack, Tedd Road) and routes from one to another.

You can zoom in once you are there to see more detail.

http://tinyurl.com/ydhsbzy7

Thanks greyghost. I did look at a map of County Fermanagh but I found it a bit confusing. The info you gave is helpful.

Croneen Barr, Lack - postcode is within the Ederney and Kesh parliamentary division. Try postcode BT93 0EP, takes you to Tedd Road, Croneen Barr

Colaghty is in the parish of Lack

Lack is about 6km East north east of Ederney

Ederney is about 25 km North of Enniskillen

Found by googling names and a map of County Fermanagh

Thanks. I have looked at the pictures and a map but it's hard to find distances and where exactly places are. I'm sure areas have changed since the 1800's.
What about Ederny, another place mentioned in my research?

Yvonne ...Try this link to give details of the Church

https://www.flickr.com/photos/16132340@N07/5564546804

The church appears to be some 3.5 miles west of Croneen Barr.

Your best looking at B&Bs in the area and Enniskillen is only about 13miles away...(as the crow flies)