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I'm not sure now re Walter F. 1914.

We know Herbert John was definitely Emma and Bert's child.

On Herbert's RAF record (1919) he lists his next of kin as Mrs Brown (Mother), 36 Woddon Road, Croydon Surrey.

So it looks like they weren't yet living in Southampton in 1914
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Herbert John's birth date is givien as 30th December 1902 Godstone

When he was discharged in 1931 he gives his address as 1 Marlborough Mansions, Hetherington Road, Clapham

Yes, that could well be, AQ.

Going with Margaret M E Vear nee Brown (born 1939), simply because it's a more unusual surname -

she married in 1959:

Marriages Sep 1959 (>99%)

BROWN Margaret M E VEAR Southampton 6b 1465
VEAR Frederick W BROWN Southampton 6b 1465

and died 1991:

Margaret Mary Elizabeth Vear
in the England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1966, 1973-1995
Name: Margaret Mary Elizabeth Vear
Death Date: 11 Aug 1991
Death Place: Ampfield Romsey Hants
Probate Date: 24 Oct 1991
Registry: Winchester


There were three possible children born in Southampton in the 1960's.

EDIT:

The youngest of those children thankfully spells his first name in an unusual way, and is on the 2017 ER in Southampton, per 192.com.

He's also in the BT phonebook online - full address and phone number.

EDIT AGAIN:

But beware, Jonsey - we don't know for sure if Margaret's father was actually a son of Emma and Bert or not.

AND AGAIN:

See later posts, Jonsey - we seem to have decided that Margaret's father WAS NOT a son of Emma and Bert. So ignore the Vear family!

I think Ena/ Eva was a child of Alice Augusta: (her daughter Sylvia married surname Pharoah). Eva is Ena on original

1939:

Brown Household (6 People) 47 Alexandra Road , Caterham and Warlingham U.D., Surrey, England

Alice A Brown 11 Apr 1876 Female Household Duties Single
Eva E Tamplin (Brown) 07 Sep 1911 Female Daily Help Single
Sorry, this record is officially closed. Check if you can open a closed record.
Walker R Pharoah 14 Mar 1906 Male General Laboure Married
Sylvia A (Alice Nellie) Crudee (Pharoah) 05 Dec 1908 Female Household Duti Single
-------------------------------------

Ena's marriage: partner listed under Tamplin & Morris

Marriages Sep 1953
BROWN Ena E TAMPLIN Surrey S.E. 5g 1870 S
Morris Victor A Brown Surrey S.E. 5g 1870
TAMPLIN Victor A BROWN Surrey S.E. 5g 1870

I don't see an obvious death or marriage for Ena Edith.

EDIT: See later post- unlikely this Walter in correct.

Walter 1914: Looks a possible

marriage:
First name(s) WALTER F
Last name BROWN
Marriage quarter 1
Marriage year 1936
Spouse: Nancy V Lewis
Spouse's last name Lewis
District Southampton
County Hampshire
Country England
Volume 2C Page 69
---------------------------------------------------------

1939
Brown Household 39 Chandos Street , Southampton C.B., Hampshire, England

Walter F Brown 17 Feb 1914 Male Wood Machinist Married
Nancy V Brown 03 Oct 1914 Female Unpaid Dom Duties Married
Sorry, this record is officially closed. Check if you can open a closed record.
Peter J H Brown 17 Jun 1937 Male Under School Age Single
Margaret M E Vear (Brown) 23 Apr 1939 Female Under School Age Single
James H Lewis 28 Jan 1912 Male Plumbers Mater Shipyard Single
Ernest L Lewis 04 Mar 1918 Male Plumber Shipyard Single

Edit: I think Peter has the wrong initial's here- corresponding birth in 1927 for Peter LJ.

I wonder if this could be another child?

BROWN, WALTER FREDERICK mms ATKINS
GRO Reference: 1914 J Quarter in SOUTHAMPTON Volume 02C Page 5


And another?

BROWN, ENA EDITH mms ATKINS
GRO Reference: 1911 D Quarter in GODSTONE Volume 02A Page 416

It makes it harder as Emma's sister Alice Augusta also married a Brown in Godstone Surrey:

First name(s) Alice Augusta
Last name Atkins
Marriage year 1907
Marriage date 11 Dec 1907
Father's first name(s) John
Father's last name Atkins
Spouse's first name(s) Samuel Ernest
Spouse's last name Brown
Spouse's father's first name(s) William Henry
Spouse's father's last name Brown
County Surrey
---------------------------------------------

1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
3 Alexandra Terrace Warlingham, Warlingham, Surrey, England

Samuel F Brown Head Married Male Insurance Agent 32 1879 Forest Gate Essex
Alice A Brown Wife Married Female - 34 1877 Caterham Surrey
Sylvia Brown Daughter - Female - 2 1909 Whyteleaf Surrey
Ruby Brown Daughter - Female - 1 1910 Warlingham Surrey

It's a pity EM & Bert didn't have a more distinctive surname, for ease of tracing descendants!

Look like they had two sons, Herbert who's in the 1911 census, and George:

BROWN, GEORGE mms ATKINS
GRO Reference: 1904 D Quarter in GODSTONE Volume 02A Page 226

BROWN, HERBERT JOHN mms ATKINS
GRO Reference: 1903 M Quarter in GODSTONE Volume 02A Page 204

George died in infancy, per 1911 - 2 children, one alive, one died.

Deaths Dec 1904 (>99%)
BROWN George 0 Godstone 2a 135

AG- just looking at the other two photos that you emailed (thankyou).

I don't think the family photo are all daughters. I'm still working on it, but I feel the older girls might be sisters of Walter or Clara.

If you look at the wedding photo- the two girls sitting to the right of the bride are, I think, the older girls in the family photo.

Looking at the similarities -In the family photo the older girl behind Walter could be his sister, and the girl next to her, Clara's sister.

On the wedding photo it's possible the girl on the man's lap to the left of the groom is the girl to Walter's left on the family photo.

I'm still struggling through it- I'll try and make it clearer later.

I feel sure it was Herbert who gave the album to E M. The handwriting and the tone of the message fit that scenario.

When she emailed the photos, Jonsey said,
" I rescued the Album from a carboot in Wimborne Dorset."

Wimborne's not unreasonably far from Portsmouth, where Herbert and Emma were living in 1939.

Chris- I was thinking the same last night- perhaps Jonsey will let us know where he came across it?

OK, to the shop photo- I am certain it is 30 Bridge Street.

On the photo the building has one large window showing directly above the signage.

Today, those windows have been made into two thinner windows- on google street the ledge above the window was the original window width.

Today, the building's sign has been moved lower creating a gap between the windows and the sign. We can see it's been lowered as on the photo the sign lies above the plasterwork of the next door shop (number 29).

The shop next door has not been so radically changed (currently grade two listed) and the plaster work above the window sits at the correct angle as on the photo. On google street view, there is an oblong of tiles in front of 29- this is the position of the grating on the pavement in the photo.

I would be amazed if they were not the same buildings.
-----------------------------------------

In 1919, Walter and Clara were living 5 William Street, Caterham. The advert for Walter's shop appears in 1920- and Walter dies in 1933. So it's likely the photo was taken between 1920 and 1933.

(wonders what area this album turned up in!)

Right, now orf', another hot one, they say!...

Chris :)

The service records on FMP for Herbert Walter Brown show that he was 'home' from Jan 1898 and discharged in November 1898- so he would've been around to gift that album to his girlfriend.

(noticed below on google, the Atkins family, says below!)

There were fourteen known children of this union, Emma May, Alice Augusta, John William, George, Albert, May Agnis, Frederick Thomas, Eliza Jane, Clara, Charles, Sophie Adelaide, Stanley Arthur, Eveline Margaret and Nellie.

http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=slogrove&id=I2371


(below might be Hubert, Gardener, Father as Henry, Caterham, .although as William Henry on Marriage, Surrey, Ancestry)

British Army Service Records (Find My Past)

Brown Herbert Walter 1876 — 1896
Forest Gate, Stratford, Essex, England

Chris :)

Edits (notes on Marriage of Sophia Adelaide, a witness Evelyn Marguerite Atkins, so another E M Atkins, although that 'Bert' theory of AQ looks very likely)

This is all so interesting, thank you everyone for all the input, hopefully I might be able to reunite the album with the family

I think you're right AG about 'Bert' not being the brother-

I'm thinking this Bert is more likely now - Hubert, her husband to be

Marriage:
First name(s) Emma Mary
Last name Atkins
Age 27
Marriage year 1902
Marriage date 17 Apr 1902
Father's first name(s) John
Father's last name Atkins
Spouse's first name(s) Herbert Walter
Spouse's last name Brown
Spouse's age 26
Spouse's father's first name(s) William Henby
Spouse's father's last name Brown
Residence Surrey, England
----------------------------------------------------

1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
89 Churchill Road So Croydon, Croydon, Surrey, England

Herbert Walter Brown Head Married Male Assistant Superintendent 35 1876 Stratford Essex
Emma Mary Brown Wife Married Female - 36 1875 Caterham Surry
Herbert John Brown Son - Male - 8 1903 Caterham Surrey
-----------------------------------------------

1939
Brown Household (2 People) 37 Canterbury Road , Portsmouth C.B., Hampshire, England

Emma M Brown 07 Oct 1874 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married
Herbert W Brown 12 Jul 1875 Male Insurance Official Married

Quite right! It was 1898!
The handwriting still doesn't look like a 16 yr Old's , but perhaps it is.

Just taking a break from work so not stopping- thought the album inscription was 1898? (not 1892).

It's not nit picking AG- we have to get this right- and there is a possibility that these names/ occupations are coincidence,

I'll be back on the case tomorrow!

Edit: Thanks for the photo AG- I think it's the right place, but I get back to it in the morning.

Nit-picking -

I don't think "Bert" can be Clara's and E M's brother - he would only have been 10 in 1892, and the handwriting isn't a child's.

Those 6 daughters -

As the album belonged to E M Watkins, it would seem reasonable to assume the family group and wedding photo are of Walter with Clara, rather than Florence. In which case, the group outside the house must have been taken not too long after their marriage, judging by the style of the clothes.

If so, the two older daughters could possibly be Walter's daughters Rose and Vera - so Vera would have been about 15 in the photo, which would make it approx. 1919-20. It must be before Mavis's birth in 1921, as there's no baby in the photo.

From a fashion point of view I wouldn't think it could be any later than that. In fact, it looks earlier.

But who the four younger girls are, goodness knows.

EDIT:

Jonsey has just sent me some other photos from the album - unidentified people. They seem to be a collection of photos taken over a wide range of time. A couple are of men in WW1 uniform, but then there are some of women in leg-o-mutton sleeves, clearly from a much earlier era.
One photo is dated 1912.