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Thank you. I’d only seen a few replies as i’m not used to this forum, so my apologies if it appears that I have posted this several times. I did get some notifications of replies but not many. I will read all of the replies and try to delete my latest post. Thanks again everyone x

Re Florence's father's occupation -

again, we, as helpers without your family information, can only go by what it says on the online records -

ie -

draper's assistant in 1851, draper [something] in 1861, and commercial traveller at death in 1879.

AG - thank you also for your information about Researching Notes. Maybe when I have a bit more time I too can help others with their research. :-)

Thank you all so much. I will add your dates to my own information now.

As I have said, I know most of what you've all told me, although I disagree with some things. I have it on record that Florence's father, Edmumd, was a needle factory factory owner, and married Harriet, whose family were also in the trade. Florence travelled regularly to the USA with her father. Her brother, Edmumd, with whom she lived, was a registered dentist in the (apparently) affluent Soho district of Birmingham, as later was his son Frederick, Walton Shilton.

My mother remembers her Gran, Florence, with fondness and recalls her tales of travelling to the USA and speaking with a Brummie accent. My grandad (twin Frederick) always thought his father was a dentist, but I've proved this to be untrue. He also only ever mentioned he had one auntie (Gertrude), although Florence named the twins a mixture of her brothers' names and my grandad named my mum after his 'favourite auntie', the one who raised his twin Roy. It is strange also that most of my grandad's children bear names that were Florence's siblings! So maybe my grandad knew more than he admitted.

This direction of my family tree has been extremely interesting and I may never know why or when Florence left the security of her affluent home to go to live in Kings Norton. I know her sister was living in Liverpool around that time so perhaps it was far enough away to not cause her wealthy brother any embarrassment!

Thank you all again for your input xx :-)

Final thought about Florence being a laundress or servant as opposed to living with her brother.

We don't know when she became a servant.
It could have been at any time after her father became bankrupt - or after her mother's death in 1881, when Florence was 17.
So the fact that she's shown as a servant in 1901 doesn't mean it was something new for her.

There's no occupation shown for her in 1891, but that doesn't mean she didn't have one.
Similarly, we only know she was with her brother on the night of the 1891 census - we can't tell whether she was living there long-term or only for a few days.

Also, just because Florence's brother was an affluent dentist, it doesn't mean he was necessarily supporting her financially.

There's a lot of lateral thinking and deduction required in family tree research - that's what makes it so fascinating!

Jackie -

you asked about the "Researching" notes.

They are just our own personal interests or comments.
Nothing to do with someone else's thread, on which we may happen to be helping, such as this one.

The helpers are all just volunteers, so addicted to genealogy research that our own family trees aren't enough for us, and we feel compelled to investigate other people's families!
All the information we find is available online, some with and some without subscription.

Gertrude had a child that died:

Birth:
MORRALL, GERTRUDE mmn: SHILTON
GRO Reference: 1898 D Quarter in TOXTETH PARK Volume 08B Page

Death:
First name(s) GERTRUDE
Last name MORRALL
Gender Female
Birth year 1899
Age 0
Death quarter 3
Death year 1899
District West Derby
County Lancashire
Volume 8B Page 357

Edmund Roy was living with William Perrin in 1911.

In 1901 Florence's sister Gertrude was also living with William Perrin.

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
22, Miranda Road, Bootle cum Linacre, West Derby, Lancashire, England

William Perrin Head Widower Male 58 1843 Horse Trainer Liverpool, Lancashire
Gertrude M Morrale Servant Married Female 33 1868 House Keeper Feckenham, Worcestershire

malyon ................


and AG then posted the following, which you seem to have missed seeing ...........

- - - - - -
26 May 2017 21:27

Malyon -

Gertude isn't Florence's child - she's in censuses with her parents, Caroline (nee Shilton) and George Shilton.
-- - - -

SO the Gertrude Shilton born in Nuneaton was NOT an illegitimate child.

Jackie .............

AG has given you a good reason for what possibly /probably happened to the family .........

......... and you yourself have just posted that your gt gt grandfather died in the Lunatic Asylum and you think that might have been after he became bankrupt!

As he died as a lunatic, it might equally be that he made bad business decisions because of his condition, ended up losing his business, and had to go into the Infirmary section of the Workhouse because no-one could, or would, look after him.


That's exactly what AG seems to have found ...... a fracturing of the family after the loss of their money.


BUT you know, we cannot answer your question because none of us are related to you or your family ............... we all just find information on the internet, which is where AG found all that information.


I personally think AG's suggestion that Florence had gone to help her brother and his wife at a bad time, and then liked being independent, so moved on.

She would not have been trained to do anything if her father was representative of his place and time, so she may have had to become a domestic servant. The only positions available for a women with her upbringing at that time would have been Companion to a wealthy lady, governess, or possibly taking some training.

Then somehow she met a man and got pregnant. When that happened her life would come crashing down ............. she certainly would not have been able to find a position as a Lady's Companion or Governess with a child.


It's likely to be a very sad story .................. but, as I have said, none of us can tell you what happened!

I did add a child born shilton with unmarried mother 1895 named Gertrude in Nuneaton which is in warwickshire

Thank you all again.

ArgylGran - you seem to know a lot about this family. However, Florence Ada Shilton's father, my great-great grandfather Edmund Spencer Shilton was a very wealthy man, owner of the Shilton & Son Needle Factory in Redditch (confirmed). He married Harriet Walton, whose family also owned a needle factory, hence the visits to Pennsylvania where they had joint enterprises. The needle factory burned down, c1840, resulting in an employee dying. Edmund died, age 46,in the Birninghan Lunatic Asylum, which I know, often took in sick people from the workhouse., where he possibly ended up after becoming bankrupt.

I know the history of my Shilton family but I'd like to know what happened to Florence Ada between the 1891 census and the 1901 census to have caused her to move to Liverpool to live and work as a laundress. The twins were born on 29 January 1903, so why was she working as a laundress in 1901? How do I find out if she had another illegitimate child earlier?

Also can someone explain the Researching notes as I'm new to this forum?

Many thanks everyone.
:-)

well found, AG!

Cause of death - breast cancer:

Harriet W Shilton
in the Pennsylvania and New Jersey, Church and Town Records, 1669-1999
Name: Harriet W Shilton
Event Type: Burial
Death Date: 3 Jun 1881
Burial Date: 6 Jun 1881
Burial Place: Philadelphia, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA
Organization Name: Odd Fellows Cemetery

Thinking about Florence's brother Edmund, with whom she was staying in 1891 -

1890 was a difficult year for him and his wife. Their son Roy was born, and another son Edmund Gower Shilton, died aged 5.

Maybe Florence went to help them at that time, and then moved on amicably to live her own independent life once things had settled down again. Maybe there was no family rift.

Florence's family seems to have broken up in any case, between 1871 and 1881.

Florence's father died in a mental hospital in 1879.
I can't see mother Harriet, nor Florence, nor Edmund junior, in 1881.(Can't see Harriet at all after 1871.)
By 1881 Henry 's lodging in Birmingham, Helena's married, and Gertrude's living with Helena and her husband.

Maybe they all had to either marry or earn their own living.
Their father Edmund Spencer Shilton doesn't seem to have been a wealthy man.
In 1851, before he married, he was a draper's assistant.
In 1861, he was a draper [and a squiggle I can't decipher]
When he was admitted to the mental hospital and died in 1879, he was a commercial traveller.

EDIT:
a tree on Ancestry suggests this is Harriet's death:

Harriet W Shilton
in the Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, Death Certificates Index, 1803-1915
Name: Harriet W Shilton
Birth Date: abt 1824
Birth Place: England
Death Date: 3 Jun 1881
Death Place: Philadelphia, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
Age at Death: 57
Burial Date: 6 Jun 1881
Gender: Female
Race: White
Street address: Ward 22, 138 W Chelton Ave
Cemetery: Odd Fellows
Marital Status: Widowed
FHL Film Number: 1003707

If that's correct then the family definitely did fragment after 1879-81.

Perhaps Florence was with her mother in 1881.
I don't see any travel records for them.

Malyon -

Gertude isn't Florence's child - she's in censuses with her parents, Caroline (nee Shilton) and George Shilton.

She had already left her brother's home and was working as a servant before she could have been pregnant with the twins.

So she may have had an earlier child, as you suggest - although as already said above, the child couldn't have been called Ada.

could this be a child of Florence
SHILTON, GERTRUDE    
SHILTON  

GRO Reference: 1895  D Quarter in NUNEATON  Volume 06D  Page 463