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Hello,
Can somebody help me - in my other thread
http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1366060?page=0
SAFC posted the 1891 census return for Berth/Bertha Smart.
I cannot for the life of me find it... (I use another site for my tree..which will not be named but I cannot find it on there anywhere!!!)
Help would be appreciated.
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Sorry not sure what you are looking for
The 1891 census has been posted on that thread so you can copy and paste it from there
If we found it it would only be posted again
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Here it is........
1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Winterbourne Hill, Winterbourne, Barton Regis, Gloucestershire, England
Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Elizabeth Smart Wife Married Female 28 1863 Tailoress Winterbourne, Gloucestershire, England
Berth Smart Daughter - Female 10 1881 Scholar Winterbourne, Gloucestershire, England
Florence Smart Daughter - Female 8 1883 Scholar Winterbourne, Gloucestershire, England
Esther Smart Daughter - Female 6 1885 Scholar Winterbourne, Gloucestershire, England
Hannah Smart Daughter - Female 5 1886 Scholar Winterbourne, Gloucestershire, England
Lilley Smart - - Female 2 1889 - Winterbourne, Gloucestershire, England
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Hi ,
thank you for that - Shirley - the reason I am asking is because I would like to attach it as a fact to my main tree .... but on that site I cannot find it at all and I don't know why :(
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It's in a muddle on Ancestry Squeaky
You need to check out the image but here they are.....
Mis-transcribed as Jones!
Eathel Jones in the 1891 England Census
Name: Eathel Jones
Age: 6
Estimated birth year: abt 1885
Relation: Daughter
Father's name: Edwin Jones
Gender: Female
Where born: Winterbourne, Gloucestershire, England
Civil Parish: Winterbourne
Ecclesiastical parish: Winterbourne
Town: Winterbourne
County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England
Street address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Education:
Employment status:
View image
Registration district: Barton Regis
ED, institution, or vessel: 22
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1993
Folio: 70
Page Number: 11
Household Members:
Name Age
Edwin Jones 34
Annie Jones 32
Arthur Jones 11
Edith Jones 9
Frank Jones 8
William J Jones 5
Lilly Jones 3
Stafford J Jones 7/12
Fanney Jones 24
Alfred Jones 4
Kate Jones 35
William Jones 13
Aurther Jones 11
Lilley Jones 9
Laura Jones 6
Stafford Jones 2
Elizabeth Jones 28 Winterbourne Gloucestershire England
Berth Jones 10 Winterbourne Gloucestershire England
Florence Jones 8 Winterbourne Gloucestershire England
Eathel Jones 6 Winterbourne Gloucestershire England
Hannah Jones 5 Winterbourne Gloucestershire England
Lilley Jones 2 Winterbourne Gloucestershire England
Prickles;o))
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Thank you Prickles....
How can Smart be mistranscribed as JONES???
The mind boggles.....
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Apart from the first four people.......Everyone on there has been mis-transcribed as Jones!!!
:-S :-D
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The explanation is this ...
In various censuses kind of randomly, but absolutely religiously in 1891, Ancestry ignored all the personal details of women entered as "wife" whose husbands were not at home on census night.
Ancestry ignored their (and their children's) clear surname, the fact that they were separated from the previous household by a single or double line, the fact that they were on a different household schedule, and the fact that they were (usually) at a different address.
Ancestry assigned the woman to the nearest preceding male head of household, and gave her (and her children) that man's surname, and identified her as his wife (and her children as his children).
Think of port towns especially, when men were at sea, and imagine the mess this created.
My great-aunt's husband was a child in Southampton. His father was made a trigamist by this process.
My great-grandparents were in Wiltshire. He was assigned a spare wife and two kids to go with the wife he already had.
I had the good fortune in both cases that the real male head of household was the one I was looking for, not the pseudo-wives and children.
Oh, and lest we forget, another of my great-grandfathers was off visiting a married child in London, and his wife in Kent, recorded as "wife" because the real HOH, the man, of course, was married off by Ancestry to the neighbour woman.
When I see this in the 1891 census, I always try to correct all the women and children on the page I am looking at. But the thousands and thousands this has been done to are beyond my capacity!
And yes, this has been pointed out to Ancestry, which doesn't give a darn.
In 1891, if you can't find someone, it is always a good idea to look for them by first name, date and place of birth, and parents' (especially mother's) name, if a child.
Now, consider the situation I just recently discovered when looking for someone in Canada. Ancestry has taken the person at the top of the page (pages have twice as many names as in the English census) and, while letting everyone else on the page keep their own names, has assigned them to that top person as the top person's spouse or child. My favourite in that regard (darn, I have lost that page now) was a 7-yr-old boy identified as the husband of the woman at the top of the page (whose real husband was on the page before).
And as far as I can tell, it has done this for the entire 1911 Canadian census ...
Squeaky, you do seem to be developing a bit of a habit of starting new threads about things that have already been researched :-)
http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1365796?page=0
referred to in the other thread linked above ...
Please do keep in mind that this does not help the people trying to help!
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OH MY Goodness Joonie!!
That is crazy!!
I have never came across this before. Probably because the male head of house has been present!!
So glad Prickles was able to help me out ! I never would have found it !!
Thanks for that info as it will help me with further research :-)
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Your dilemma has prompted me to write up this problem on Genealogy Chat ... along with another that is somewhat more obscure but sometimes more entertaining. ;-)
http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/genealogy_chat/thread/1366234
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Thats so funny Joonie !
and a really helpful post to others!!
thank you!
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I've got some rellies in Fraserburgh and Peterhead - 2 Aberdeen fishing ports, and one often sees something like this happen on the Scottish census, too. I had presumed it was a glitch in their algoritm for dividing the census enumeration into households, and it didn't recognize h/h's that weren't headed by a "Head" and just ran them into the previous h/h, often with seemingly bigamous results.
safc didn't give the census ref for the page he posted, but it's clearly an FMP transcription, and FS usually uses the FMP transcription, and FS usually gives the census ref, so I looked this up on FS via:
https://familysearch.org/search/collection/list#page=1®ion=UNITED_KINGDOM_IRELAND
and got https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:WBKK-TPZ
The important bit is:
Page Number 11
Piece/Folio 1993/ 70
Now you can look this up on Ancestry if you use the search form specific to that census - for England thru 1901 (1911 is a bit difft) these are:
1841 http://search.ancestry.co.uk/search/db.aspx?dbid=8978
1851 http://search.ancestry.co.uk/search/db.aspx?dbid=8860
1861 http://search.ancestry.co.uk/search/db.aspx?dbid=8767
1871 http://search.ancestry.co.uk/search/db.aspx?dbid=7619
1881 http://search.ancestry.co.uk/search/db.aspx?dbid=7572
1891 http://search.ancestry.co.uk/search/db.aspx?dbid=6598
1901 http://search.ancestry.co.uk/search/db.aspx?dbid=7814
Just enter the census ref and nothing else (in 1841 only the extra element Book Number is part of the ref.
What you get back are Ancestry's transcription of the 2 dozen or so names that are on the page, Click on the one you fancy.
--------------------------
Going the other way, if you've got a census ref and want to see what FMP thinks is there, their specific page is
http://search.findmypast.co.uk/search-world-Records/1891-england-wales-and-scotland-census
[with the appropriate year 1841-1901 substitued in the URL]
One can use the same basic screen for a FreeCEN look up.
Piece: RG12/1993 Place: Barton Regis -Gloucestershire Enumeration District: 22
Civil Parish: Winterbourne Ecclesiastical Parish: Winterbourne
Folio: 70 Page: 11 Schedule: 71
Address: Winterbourne Hill
Surname First name(s) Rel Status Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
SMART Elizabeth Wife M F 28 Tailoress(Em'ee) Gloucestershire - Winterbourne
SMART Bertha Dau S F 10 Scholar Gloucestershire - Winterbourne
SMART Florence Dau S F 8 Scholar Gloucestershire - Winterbourne
SMART Eathel Dau S F 6 Scholar Gloucestershire - Winterbourne
SMART Hannah Dau S F 5 Scholar Gloucestershire - Winterbourne
SMART Lilley Dau S F 2 Gloucestershire - Winterbourne
Not that it's relevant here, but I can also do census ref lookups for Scotland if I use the parish number (e.g., 232 for Peterhead for all years) in place of the piece number.
Wha is more relevant is that thru mos of the 19th cent, between these 2 Aberdeenshire ports was a detached piece of Banffshire that included a parish (St Fergus), so I often limit my search to these 2 counties.
To do this: click on one county, then hold the ctrl key down and click on the other county.
This would work in FreeBMD if I wanted to search just both Gloucs and Somerset, e.g..
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