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rootgatherer I actually paid for a lady to search my for my father and thats what the outcome was she even did a gedcom for me but I'm unable to upload it here because it warns me that it'll wipe my existing tree. I'd been stuck for so long and going round in circles that's why I asked her to help (after she offered) . I don't really understand why she would tell me that they were half siblings if they wasn't ! I'm not doubting any of you as to me you all sound very professional and knowledgeable and I'm so so very grateful for any help . What I posted earlier = REG'S oldest 2 brothers etc etc was what she told me in am email . So I'm definitely confused . THANK YOU ALL AGAIN :-(

As posted by Rootgatherer on page 1, Ruth's daughters, Kathleen & Mary are living at Mayall Road, Lambeth on the 1939 register:

Mayall Road , Lambeth, London, England

Mary Young (Rogers) 12 Aug 1921 Female Shop Assistant Provision Single
Kathleen C Norbury (Rogers) 02 Feb 1915 Female Confectioners Asst Cak Single
-----------------------------------------------

Ruth is listed at the same address in 1937 / 1938/ 1939 on the electoral registers- so it looks as though she didn't stay with Fred:

1937/ 1938/ 1939
39 Mayall Road, Lambeth
Ruth Rogers
Kathleen Rogers
Agnes Mary Walker
Charles Walker
Edith Violet Walker
James Walker
----------------------------------------------

This is Kathleen and 2 siblings on 1947 electoral register

1947:
119 Mayall Road, Lambeth
Herbert A Norbury
Kathleen C Norbury
William Rogers
Arthur R Young
Mary Young

I had the same thoughts rootgatherer- Fred & Tom are also listed as his sons on the 1911.

Just to add- you're unlikely to find any record of a divorce for around 1970 unless you have the paperwork yourself.

How can you be sure that Fred and Tom were half brothers of Reg please? To me, and it is only my opinion, if Ruth was their mother and one was named for Fred (Sen) and the other his step father then Fred was almost certainly their father. Also Tom was living with Fred (Sen) in 1939. Even if Fred and Ruth were unmarried at the time of their births it doesn't make them half siblings to Ruth's other children, unless of course Fred wasn't the father of the children born after the marriage.

rootgatherer, Tom was my fathers half brother, there were 6 full siblings and 2 half siblings, this is what I have found out so far , I do have a tree of sorts
Reg’s oldest 2 brothers, Frederick and Thomas were only ½ brothers.
Their mother Ruth Yates had them before she married husband Frederick J Rogers in 1914 in Devizes, Wiltshire. They used a mixture of the names Rogers and Yates throughout their lives.
Ruth Yates’ husband, Frederick J Rogers was himself was ‘illegitimate’
His mother was Catherine May Rogers who had Frederick and sister Lydia before she married Thomas Waite in 1879. Again, both Lydia and Frederick j used a combination of surnames of Waite and Rogers.
But Frederick dropped the Waite when he married Ruth Yates in 1914.
Reg could have married again in the 1970’s but I am not sure of this. I have met Reg's 2 sons after my Mum's marriage . I can't find a divorce record for them I seem to think / remember it was around 1970 . Thank you so very much
:-D :-D

Always possible patchem but her spouse describes himself as married not widowed in 1939. Always possible he misunderstood the question. Can't see any likely death for her or likely remarriage.

Searching for Ruth with that date of birth (I do not have full access) seems to give only one 'hit' - Ruth Collins in Stratford, and that looks like a legitimate marriage of Ruth Townsend in 1909.

So she died before 1939?

Not that it helps, but the baptism gives Ruth's DOB:

First name(s) Ruth
Last name Yates
Birth date 26 Jan 1886
Baptism date 27 Mar 1886
Residence Kingsbury Square
Place Marlborough, St Mary the Virgin
County Wiltshire
Father's name(s) Eli Yates
Father's occupation Blacksmith
Mother's name(s) Elizabeth
Record type Parish Registers
---------------------------------------------------

An article about the death of Fred's stepfather in The Salisbury Times - Friday 26 October 1906.

MARLBOROUGH
Fatal fight at the fair. At Marlborough borough petty sessions on Monday before the Mayor (Mr A J Crosby), and other magistrates, William James Hooper, travelling jeweller of Peterborough, was charged, on remand, with the manslaughter of Norman Waite, shoemaker from Oare, Wilts, by knocking him down in Marlborough pleasure fair on October 13th- Frederick James Rogers, labourer, stepson of the deceased stated....
--------------------------------

Other articles give his name as Thomas (not Norman) Waite.

Carol, you say that Tom was Reginald's half brother. So are we thinking that Frederick Rogers didn't father all those children's?

Do you think that Ruth and Frederick parted and someone else fathered the younger children?

Like you, I can't find a death for Ruth or possible remarriage. Perhaps she lived with another partner and took his surname.

I'm not too sure about the theory that Frederick had to wait for the death of a first wife before he married Ruth as I can't see a possible marriage for him before hand either as Rogers or Waite.

Root gatherer. Thanks you have given me a lot to go on I'll have fun trying to fill my tree in as I said before they went by 2 or 3 different surnames Rogers, Yates and Waite this is why I got in a pickle . Thank you, Carol :-D

Patches, I'm not sure where I got her details from I originally had a different surname for her but then again I'm not surprised because all the way through the Rogers side they used 2 maybe 3 surnames. For years I thought a cousin on my father's side was older than me and called Kath but 2 other people found her and she's younger and called Kristen ! I also found out that my uncle Tom was my father's half brother, I didn't know that! Thanks again Carol :-D

WOW. I m stunned ! Thank you everyone. My father was Reginald I didn't really know him as he left my Mother for another in 1964 I was 4 I have had lots of problems as throughout my search I have hit obstacles A I'm a novice B on my father's side they used lots of different surnames . I thought I knew what I was doing as I've traced my maternal side right back to the 1600's . :-D thank you everyone.

???? May's birth registration ......

ROGERS, LYDIA ELIZABETH MAY -
GRO Reference: 1876 J Quarter in PEWSEY Volume 05A Page 180


no mother's madien name, just as there was not for Frederick, so the two were illegitimate.

Katherine/Catharine's marriage to Thomas Waite explains Frederick's use of the surname Waite.


George Waite's birth registration ....

WAITE, GEORGE mmn ROGERS
GRO Reference: 1880 J Quarter in PEWSEY Volume 05A Page 174

different spelling for Katherine' name .....

Marriages Mar 1879 (>99%)
ROGERS Catharine May Pewsey 5a 202
WAITE Thomas Pewsey 5a 202

Clutching at straws here

Deaths Mar 1979 (>99%)
ROGERS RUTH 29MR1885 BIRMINGHAM 32 1540


EDIT

Not that one, her maiden name was Harlow

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Oare, Wilcot, Pewsey, Wiltshire, England

Thomas Waite Head Married Male 25 1856 Shoemaker Oare, Wiltshire, England
Katherine Waite Wife Married Female 27 1854 Domestic Duties Hungerford, Berkshire, England
Frederick Rogers Stepson Single Male 8 1873 Scholar Pewsey, Wiltshire, England
May Rogers Step Daughter Single Female 4 1877 Scholar Pewsey, Wiltshire, England
George Waite Son Single Male 0 1881 - Oare, Wiltshire, England

First name(s) FREDERICK
Last name ROGERS
Gender Male
Birth day -
Birth month -
Birth year 1873
Age 67
Death quarter 4
Death year 1940
District Devizes
County Wiltshire
Volume 5A
Page 252
Country England
Record set England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Deaths & burials
Collections from Great Britain
© Findmypast

Here he is in 1939 but no Ruth. grrrr

Household (2 People)
Chandlers Lane , Devizes R.D., Wiltshire, England

Frederick Rogers
DOB 12 Jan 1873
SEX Male
OCCUPATION General Agricultural Labourer
MARITAL STATUS Married
SCHEDULE 5
SCHEDULE SUB NUMBER 1

Thomas Rogers
DOB
21 Jan 1907
SEX Male
OCCUPATION General Labourer
MARITAL STATUS Married
SCHEDULE 5
SCHEDULE SUB NUMBER 2
Ref: RG101/7151D/002/25 Letter Code: WSGA
© Findmypast Ltd
Open a closed record Request a living person's record


3 closed records. (Maybe the three youngest children?)

This looks like Frederick's birth, so younger than stated on 1911 census

Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
ROGERS, FREDERICK JAMES -
GRO Reference: 1873 M Quarter in PEWSEY Volume 05A Page 175

Maybe?


First name(s) MARY
Last name YOUNG
Gender Female
Birth day 12
Birth month 8
Birth year 1921
Age -
Death quarter 3
Death year 1991
District Canterbury
Register number 791
County Kent
Volume 16
Page 267
Country England
Record set England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Deaths & burials
Collections from Great Britain
© Findmypast