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Carol posted ...............


Hi me again, SylviainCanada wrote on page 1
Re the family in the 1911 Census .......

1911 Census
Fredrick Rogers Head Married Male Farm Labourer 42 1869 Pewsey

Ruth Yates Housekeeper Single Female - 25 1886 Marlborough

Fred Yates Son - Male - 5 1906 Oare

Tom Yates Son - Male - 2 1909 Bishops Cannings


After marriage???

ROGERS, KATHLEEN CORDELIA YATES
GRO Reference: 1915 M Quarter in DEVIZES Volume 05A Page 153

It looks as though Ruth had at least 2 children before marrying Fred Rogers.

YATES, THOMAS -
GRO Reference: 1909 M Quarter in DEVIZES Volume 05A Page 96

Devizes is the registration district that includes Bishops Cannings. There is no mother's maiden name showing, indicating that the child was illegitimate



Two more children born before the marriage??

Couldnt this mean that Ruth Yates had 2 sons before she wed Fred Rogers ? this is according to the 1911 census . MORE CONFUSED

- - - - - - - -

These are the 2 children born after 1911 and before Fred and Ruth married in 1914, and who I THINK might be two more illegitimate children ..................


YATES, DOROTHY BEATRICE EILEEN -
GRO Reference: 1911 S Quarter in DEVIZES Volume 05A Page 181

YATES, PERCIVAL -
GRO Reference: 1913 J Quarter in DEVIZES Volume 05A Page 183



IF these 2 children are indeed Ruth's, then she had a total of 4 children before she married Fred


I suggested that they had not got married because Fred was already married based on the statement on the 1911 that he was Married, but Ruth was named as House Keeper....................

if he was lying by saying he was Married, why didn't Ruth also say she was married?????

Now, to try to follow those two children born in 1911 and 1913 ...................


????? I wonder if this is Dorothy ............

Marriages Jun 1933 (>99%)

GLASSETT Ernest A Yates Lambeth 1d 641
Yates Dorothy B E Glassett Lambeth 1d 641

Percival and Dorothea's baptisms??????????


Wiltshire baptisms index 1530-1917

First name(s) Alfred Percival Gladstone
Last name Yates
Birth year -
Baptism year 1915
Baptism date 20 Jul 1915
Residence Bourton, Bishops Cannings
Place Bishops Cannings
County Wiltshire
Country England
Father's first name(s) -
Mother's first name(s) Ruth
Mother's last name Yates
Mother's occupation Widow Woman
Record type Parish Registers
Record set Wiltshire Baptisms Index 1530-1917
Category Life Events (BDMs)
Subcategory Births & baptisms
Collections from United Kingdom


First name(s) Dorothea Beatrice
Last name Yates
Birth year -
Baptism year 1915
Baptism date 20 Jul 1915
Residence Bourton, Bishops Cannings
Place Bishops Cannings
County Wiltshire
Country England
Father's first name(s) -
Mother's first name(s) Ruth
Mother's last name Yates
Mother's occupation Widow Woman
Record type Parish Registers
Record set Wiltshire Baptisms Index 1530-1917
Category Life Events (BDMs)
Subcategory Births & baptisms
Collections from United Kingdom

NOTE how Ruth describes herself?!

and are these Fred and Tom's baptisms, also in 1915???

There is no birth date provided for any of them, and it is not possible to see the image on FMP



Wiltshire baptisms index 1530-1917

First name(s) Thomas
Last name Yates
Birth year -
Baptism year 1915
Baptism date 20 Jul 1915
Residence Bourton, Bishops Cannings
Place Bishops Cannings
County Wiltshire
Country England
Father's first name(s) -
Mother's first name(s) Ruth
Mother's last name Yates
Mother's occupation Widow Woman
Record type Parish Registers
Record set Wiltshire Baptisms Index 1530-1917
Category Life Events (BDMs)
Subcategory Births & baptisms
Collections from United Kingdom


First name(s) Frederick James Mason
Last name Yates
Birth year -
Baptism year 1915
Baptism date 20 Jul 1915
Residence Bourton, Bishops Cannings
Place Bishops Cannings
County Wiltshire
Country England
Father's first name(s) -
Mother's first name(s) Ruth
Mother's last name Yates
Mother's occupation Widow Woman
Record type Parish Registers
Record set Wiltshire Baptisms Index 1530-1917
Category Life Events (BDMs)
Subcategory Births & baptisms
Collections from United Kingdom

Then there is also this one .................. also baptised on 20 July 2015, and also with mother Ruth Yates

I can't find a birth registration for her????


Wiltshire baptisms index 1530-1917

First name(s) Agnes Miriam
Last name Yates
Birth year -
Baptism year 1915
Baptism date 20 Jul 1915
Residence Bourton Bps Cannings
Place Bishops Cannings
County Wiltshire
Country England
Father's first name(s) -
Mother's first name(s) Ruth
Mother's last name Yates
Record type Parish Registers
Record set Wiltshire Baptisms Index 1530-1917
Category Life Events (BDMs)
Subcategory Births & baptisms
Collections from United Kingdom

ROGERS, KATHLEEN CORDELIA mmn YATES
GRO Reference: 1915 M Quarter in DEVIZES Volume 05A Page 153


Baptised February 1915 ........

Wiltshire baptisms index 1530-1917

First name(s) Cathleen Cordelia
Last name Rogers
Birth year -
Baptism year 1915
Baptism date 21 Feb 1915
Residence Bourton, Bishops Cannings
Place Bishops Cannings
County Wiltshire
Country England
Father's first name(s) Frederick James
Father's last name Rogers
Father's occupation Labourer
Mother's first name(s) Ruth
Record type Parish Registers
Record set Wiltshire Baptisms Index 1530-1917
Category Life Events (BDMs)
Subcategory Births & baptisms
Collections from United Kingdom

NOW I'm totally confused ! :-S

Sylvia, that is Dorothy's first marriage and is posted on page 1 as is her second marriage and her death.

Looking at those baptisms, it looks like Ruth was claiming to be a "widow" prior to her marriage to Frederick - even although she's claiming to be single in 1911.

The thing is as a child my Uncle Tom was in my life longer than my father and he didnt look that old ! although when you're small everyone looks old ! I was surprised to find out he was quite a bit older than my father seeing as all the others (children) were either 18 months / 2.5 years apart and Tom was a good 5 years older than the rest . Tom was born 1909 whereas the others came along in 1915/18/21/24 then 1926 . The result I have only shows the siblings I know about but then again I'm no expert ! Thanks again :-)

sorry about re-posting Dorothy's marriage ................. I didn't check back before posting it.

No problem Sylvia. At least you found the baptisms . I just wonder why Ruth didn't just name Fred as the father as she had married him by 1915.

Carol

Sit down with a large sheet of paper.

Divide it into two columns

In one column put what your paid researcher found

In the other column put the information that we have found

See how it compares


Think of one thing ............. the woman you paid asked YOU if you wanted her to do the research.

Did you check her out before you agreed?

Do you know how good a researcher she is / was?


Then think that you have several people here doing it for nothing for you, all of us with many years of experience ........ and each of us is succeeding in finding information that confirms what one or more of the others has found.


It is not the first time that any of us has found that work done by a paid researcher was wrong.



Now, regarding Fred and Tom ........

..... they seem to be definitely Ruth Yates' children.

..... they both live with Fred Rogers, and use his name later in life. That indicates that he has accepted them as his children.

...... You should buy the birth certificates for both of them, although it is unlikely that there will be a father's name on there, because the father of an illegitimate child had to give his permission.

But there is NOTHING that we have found so far to say that they are not full brothers ................. that is unless someone can determine that Ruth Yates was not living with Fred Rogers at the time during which both children were conceived and born.

Rootgatherer .............

I also wondered that,

and that Agnes Miriam puzzles me as well!


Could there possibly have been TWO Ruth Yates living in Bourton, Bishops Canning?

But if so ............. how do Tom and Fred fit in, when they're living with Fred Rogers and a Ruth Yates in 1911?

Hi I was on another site where this woman had done numerous searches and had been successful I put on there the same as I had done on here as I was getting stuck with the Rogers /Yates part . She found my deceased father like that (clicks fingers) I then asked if she would consider helping me further but I had limited funds as I was currently off work ill (long term ) she agreed , so I knew of her and about 3 other cases I'd followed .
heres her message when she'd finished.................................................
hi carol.
as you can see i stayed up for 3 hours last night and ive done an hour and a 1/2 this morning, but to be honest with you, ive got 57 people in the tree and that doesnt include you or your mum side., but...................
i cannot do a lot more with it without spending massive amounts of time on it, as the combination of names becomes horrendous to search.
there is definately loads there for you to add to your own tree and progress in your own time.
i think £40 is fair for what i have done so far, i can email you the GED for the tree and the few documents i have saved. It seems silly for me to print it off and send it to you, as i'm sure you will continue with it, and to print it and put it in a folder would make the price go up also
what do you think?.
I hope your chemo goes well...............................................................................


Thanks for all your help and I mean that sincerely <3

Well Carol, you now know you could have saved your £40.00 to buy certificates had you asked on here first. As Sylvia has said, the helpers on here have many years of experience researching and some are even qualified genealogists. I personally have been researching family history for almost 40 years. At one time I considered researching for others when I retired to subsidise my pension but that was in the days when there was no internet and you had to visit the records offices.


Sylvia, I too am intrigued by the Agnes Miriam.

Frederick Rogers/Waite in 1891 on Ancestry, a private in the Hampshire Infantry.

Frederick Waiter Age: 18
Where born: Pewsey, Wiltshire, England
Civil Parish: St Thomas
Ecclesiastical parish: St Thomas County/Island: Hampshire
Country: England Registration district: Winchester
ED, institution, or vessel: The Barracks
Piece: 938 Folio: 126 Page Number: 39
Household Members:
.................. (list of other soldiers)
Arthur Tosdevin 27
Frederick Waiter 18
Albert Hansford 22
........... (list of other soldiers)
Class: RG12; Piece: 938; Folio: 126; Page: 39; GSU roll: 6096048

He could have married overseas....

Added:
No, wrong man, he is with family in 1891.