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Anyone know of the above born in Camberwell, London. My grandfather. I know everything about him until he moved from Shortlands Mews around 1938 and was last heard of living in Brook Green Hammersmith about 1944 but gone by 1946. Legally separated from his wife but don't think they ever divorced. Occupation either a car mechanic or carpenter/joiner. Death registers/Will checks haven't been very conclusive. Unlikely to have lived to any great age as most of his brothers/sisters all died before they were 69. The woman partner at Shortlands Mews called herself Mary Ann Harvey but this was not his wife.

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GRO DEATHS ABROAD INDICES (1966 to 1994) Transcription
Print transcription View image
First name(s) Sidney James
Last name Harvey
Age AGED 74
Birth year 1900
Birth day -
Birth month -
Death year 1974
Place VALENCIA
Country Spain
Record source GRO Death Abroad Indices (1966 to 1994)
Volume C (Consular)
Page 531
Record set British Nationals Died Overseas 1818-2005
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Deaths & burials
Collections from Great Britain

For Reference:

1937 electoral register
14 Montagu Mews, Hammersmith
Sidney James Harvey
Mary Ann Harvey

1938
14 Shortland Mews, Hammersmith
Sidney James Harvey
Mary Ann Harvey

1939 electoral register:

238 Emlyn Gardens, Hammersmith
Sidney James Harvey
Mary Harvey

1945/ 1946
238 Emlyn Gardens, Hammersmith
Sidney I Harvey
Mary Harvey

He's not listed with wife Ivy on the electoral registers from 1936

1934
88 Hollydale Road
Sidney James Harvey
Ivy Harvey
Emma Amy Spink
Emma Ann Spink

1936
88 Hollydale Road
Ivy Harvey
Emma Amy Spink
Emma Ann Spink
-------------------------------

What evidence do you have to suggest the Sidney in Hammersmith is your Sidney?

On the 1939 register only Mary is listed at Emlyn Gardens. Sidney's record above hers is closed:

Household 238 Evelyn Gardens , Hammersmith, London, England

Closed Record
Mary Harvey 17 Nov 1897 Female Dressmaker Furnisher Married

There has been another thread on Sidney. No answers back then though.

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1345776

There's a probate for a Sidney James Harvey 1974, address 75 Ashmill St London NW1?

https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/

What does 'closed' on 1939 register mean? Thank you for the information. I know Sidney was at 14 Shortlands Mews W6 in 1938 as I have letters from him to my grandmother at that time. In 1944 my father was called up for WW2 and I imagine his uncle (Sid's brother) told him the address his father was living at, all my father could remember was that it was in the Brook Green area of Hammersmith. He went to say 'goodbye' as he was off to war but the woman who opened the door (presumably Mary) said Sidney wasn't in. My farther returned to the address upon being de-mobbed mid 1946 but Sidney (and presumably Mary) had move away. That's where the trail ends. As far as I am aware Sidney & his wife Ivy were never divorced. I did the previous thread back in 2009.

Closed records on the 1939 register mean that the person was born after 1915, usually those dying before 1991 show up on the register and FMP are matching more recent deaths, however if the 1974 death overseas was Sidney the record would probably remain closed as he didn't die in the UK.

I was thinking the same Nyx (about the record being closed if he died overseas), however, the Probate for Sidney at 75 Ashmill Street might be worth looking into.

If correct, the last address I had them at was Emlyn Gardens in 1946 (they're not their after this time).

Then in 1947/ 48/ 49... there is this electoral register:

75 Ashmill Street, Marylebone, Westminster
Sidney J Harvey
Mary Harvey

I suspect the Sidney who died overseas is the Sidney who lived at Ashmill Street. The probate does not say where he died- just 'of Ashmill Street'.

I don't see another death in 1974 to fit the probate. AND as Nyx said, it would explain why his record is closed on the 1939 register.

From 1952 Mary at Ashmill Street is listed back as Mary A.

AustinQ That does look a possible then doesn't it :-)

Certainly does- a very good possible. If it were my family I'd be ordering that death certificate or probate.

In 1959, Mary isn't listed at Ashmill Street anymore (She's still listed there in 1958).

1961
75 Ashmill Street

Marilyn A Davies
Peter R Davies
Sidney J Harvey
Gerald Ostler
Jean D Ostler

AustinQ, many thanks for all this information, re the 1939 register Sidney was born 1899 so you are probably right in that he may have died overseas hence record closed but you also said on the 25th April for the 1939 register, 'closed record Mary Harvey 17th November 1897 Dressmaker Furnisher Married' so why would this be 'closed'. Also, you seem knowledgeable about these things - if a couple are legally separated, after a set number of years can of the couple get a divorce without the other knowledge. I note the estate was £7,262 - if it was my grandfather he must have robbed a bank as he never had 2 pennies to rub together back at the end of the 1930's. For this Sidney who died in Valencia, who would I apply to for a copy of the death certificate if you know? Do these registers normally list the occupation of those listed? I am so grateful you are able to tell me all this information - I'm trying not to get too excited over finally being able to close Sidney's past.

Hello Nadine

The 'Closed Record' on the 1939 register was a record listed above Mary at the same address- Mary's record was open- but we know a Sidney J was also at the address because he is listed on the electoral register for the same year- so it is assumed the closed record belongs to Sidney. I hope this makes sense.

Many people lived together as husband and wife, without legally being married to each other. It is possible that Mary just used his surname, or changed it by deedpole. Mary may also have been married to someone else before her relationship with Sidney.

I'm afraid I cannot give definite information re divorce- but I think it unlikely a divorce would have taken place without Ivy's knowledge. I believe it can happen but you have to prove you have made every effort to contact the other party. May be others can give you information on this.

As for the estate- 1936 to 1974 is long time- you have no knowledge of what he was doing during this time or, if he inherited from his partner or family. Circumstances change.

The death certificate can be ordered from the GRO:
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/

I am unsure what information an overseas death certificate will list (apart from age and deathdate)- more info by scrolling through the info here.

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/most_customers_want_to_know.asp#Overseas
---------------------------------

Wills can now be ordered online here (cost £10- usually sent by email within 2 weeks):
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/#wills

Nadine- Gerald and Jean Ostler were registered at the same address as Sidney 1961- 64.

Jean is listed on the current electoral register (I think Gerald passed away 1993), wouldn't hurt to send a letter with a self addressed, stamped envelope to see if she can remember any details of Sidney. I'll pm the address in case you don't see it.

I've just had another look at the electoral registers.

As I posted earlier, from 1959 Mary A Harvey doesn't appear with Sidney at 75 Ashmill Street.

However, from 1959 to 1965 (Ancestry electoral registers only go to 1965) Sidney has an 'L' printed before his name. Having a quick google, it appears this means that an "elector is NOT entitled to vote in respect of that entry at parliamentary elections".

So I wonder if this was the year that Sidney (and Mary?) went abroad? And perhaps rented out his house? I'm unsure of other reasons why he wouldn't be allowed to register a vote.