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Is this your Peter in 1939 please.?
Lawley Household (2 People)
4 Wymer Street , Norwich C.B., Norfolk, England

FIRST NAME(S) LAST NAME(S)
Peter E Lawley
DOB 02 Nov 1869
SEX Male
OCCUPATION General Labourer
MARITAL STATUS Married
SCHEDULE 254
SCHEDULE SUB NUMBER 1

Julia M Rider
DOB 05 Jun 1880
SEX Female
OCCUPATION Unpaid Domestic Duties
MARITAL STATUS Single
SCHEDULE 254
SCHEDULE SUB NUMBER 2

i know rootgatherer she would of only been 17 its just that he was living with emma gibbons nee lawley in 1881 but no sarah so was thinking she had him illigetimate like herself. i cant find sarah or peter on the 1971 census its so frustrating but really appreciate your help :-) :-)

it could be i had found a death for him in norfolk in the fourtys so it must be him but his wife died in hemsworth where they brought their family up so they might of seperated because she was still alive in 1939 but there is no sign of her with him on there. :-(

I'm not seeing either of them either on the 1871 census. It is always possible that he was the son of one of Emma's sisters. You would probably be best to buy his birth certificate even if Sarah is his mother, it may say if she was Sarah Ann or Sarah Jane. You could then look for a marriage or death for her. Let's she if we can ind Sarah in 1881 assuming that marriage Safc posted is correct.

It does look like it was Emma's daughter who married Isaac. Only thing is they are both described as full age on that marriage entry when neither of them were!

1881 England, Scotland Census Transcription
56, Cottage Street, Kingswinford (Stafford), Stourbridge, Worcestershire, England


Isaac Bagnal Head Married Male 23 1858 Puddler Brockmoor, Staffordshire, England
Sarah Bagnal Wife Married Female 27 1854 - Brierley Hill, Staffordshire, England
Tilly Bagnal Daughter Single Female 2 1879 - Brierley Hill, Staffordshire, England
Mary Grosvenor - Married Female 31 1850 - Brierley Hill, Staffordshire, England
Isaiah Shakespeare Visitor Single Male 11 1870 Scholar Brierley Hill, Staffordshire, England

Thanks for your help rootgatherer im going to send for peter,s birth certificate then i will know for definate :-)

i just need to find out what relation peter was to emma and sarah .

Yes, the birth certificate is a good idea. I suspect it'll confirm that he's Sarah's son and Emma's grandson.

If you can, it would be great if you tell us what's on the certificate :-)

yeah i will definately keep you posted do you know how long they take to come ??

Don't know how many Peter Edwin about, saw below...

Chris :)

County Staffordshire
Place Bloxwich
Church name All Saints
Register type Unspecified
Register entry number 183
Marriage date 21 Nov 1887
Groom forename Peter Edwin
Groom surname LAWLEY
Groom age 19
Groom condition bachelor
Groom abode Broad Lane
Groom parish
Groom occupation Miner
Bride forename Caroline
Bride surname SADLER
Bride age 19
Bride condition spinster
Bride abode Bell Lane
Bride parish
Bride occupation
Groom father forename Not Named
Groom father surname
Groom father occupation
Bride father forename Joseph
Bride father surname SADLER
Bride father occupation Bricklayer
Witness Enoch WHITE
Witness Emily EDWARDS
Register note Bride signs X.


Baptism
County Staffordshire
Place Bloxwich
Church name St Thomas the Apostle
Register type Parish Register
Register entry number 956
Baptism date 3 Apr 1894
Person forename Peter Edwin
Person abode Pinfold
Father forename Peter Edwin
Father surname LAWLEY
Father occupation Miner
Mother forename Caroline


(added)

County Staffordshire
Place Bloxwich
Church name St Thomas the Apostle
Register type Parish Register
Register entry number 401
Baptism date 16 Aug 1891
Person forename Norris Victor
Person abode Elmore Green Row
Father forename Peter Edwin
Father surname LAWLEY
Father occupation Miner
Mother forename Kate


County Staffordshire
Place Bloxwich
Church name St Thomas the Apostle
Register type Parish Register
Register entry number 417
Baptism date 20 Sep 1891
Person forename Lilian
Person abode Parker Street
Father forename Peter Edwin
Father surname LAWLEY
Father occupation Labourer
Mother forename Caroline


Baptism
County Staffordshire
Place Bloxwich
Church name St Thomas the Apostle
Register type Parish Register
Register entry number 1563
Baptism date 14 Oct 1896
Person forename Lionel
Person abode 14 High St.
Father forename Peter Edwin
Father surname LAWLEY
Father occupation Miner
Mother forename Caroline

https://www.freereg.org.uk/


Edits (not sure if below would help anywhere!)

http://www.westmidlandsbmd.org.uk/

http://www.staffordshirebmd.org.uk/


West Midlands Marriage indexes for the years: 1857

GIBBONS Edward LAWLEY Emma Tipton, St Martin (Pepper Box) Sandwell Register Office 39/8/347

Hmm. Isaac seems to be single in 1891 if this is the same man. So where's Sarah?

Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Bulmer Street, Linthorpe, Middlesbrough, Yorkshire, England

Isaih Harding Head Married Male 42 1849 Puddler Staffordshire, England
Mary Ann Harding Wife Married Female 43 1848 - Staffordshire, England
William Harding Son Single Male 14 1877 Scholar Staffordshire, England
Hannah Harding Daughter Single Female 9 1882 Scholar Staffordshire, England
Isabella Harding Daughter Single Female 4 1887 Scholar Yorkshire, England
James Harding Son Single Male 0 1891 - Yorkshire, England
Isaac Bagnall Boarder Single Male 32 1859 Puddler Staffordshire, England
John Bagnall Boarder Single Male 29 1862 Puddler Staffordshire, England

No that many about Chris, so I think that's our man :-)

Think they usually take a couple of weeks Michelle.

Thats his marriage chris and the birth of his 3rd child my husband,s great grandfather is his first child norris lawley born 1889. :-)


Thanks rootgatherer xx

Looks like Sarah and Isaac only had the one child


Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
BAGNALL, MATILDA LAWLEY
GRO Reference: 1879 S Quarter in STOURBRIDGE Volume 06C Page 220

hi chris as far as i am aware caroline sadler was norris victor,s mother he was born in denaby in 1889 and peter and caroline were married in 1887 in wallsall . why does it say mothers forename kate ??? :-(

No idea on that!..

Chris :)

(saw below)

07 March 1896 - Staffordshire Advertiser - Stafford, Staffordshire,

Peter Lawley miner, High street, Bloxwich, was charged with assaulting his wife, Caroline, by brutally beating her The defendant said he was in a bad temper, and as his wife called him bad names he did assault her. He was fined 40s. costs or one month's imprisonment. His mother caused a little scene in court by taking his part as against his wife.

That could be peters half sister if sarah,s his mum :-)

If below was her Marriage...

Chris :)

West Midlands Birth indexes for the years: 1879

BAGNALL Matilda Kingswinford Dudley Register Office KIN/114/


West Midlands Marriage indexes for the years: 1895
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BAGNALL Matilda MANSELL William Tipton, St Mark Sandwell Register Office 38

Not our Matilda on above marriage? Wrong father's name? Wrong year of birth?

Matilda
Last name Bagnall
Age 19
Birth year 1876
Marriage year 1895
Marriage date 23 Feb 1895
Marriage place Tipton, St Mark
Denomination Anglican
Residence Toll End
Father's first name(s) Edward
Father's last name Bagnall
Spouse's first name(s) William
Spouse's last name Mansell
Spouse's age 22
Spouse's residence Toll End
Spouse's father's first name(s) Edward
Spouse's father's last name Mansell
County Staffordshire
Country England
Archive reference D6116/1/1/13
Page 205
Register type -
Record set Staffordshire Marriages
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Marriages & divorces
Collections from Great Britain
Transcriptions © Findmypast 2015