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An update re marriage of John West Girvan and Audrey E Hallsworth......married May 10th 1919......John West Girvan ...Bachelor... profession Moulder ...father Joseph Girvan ...profession Soldier.
Audrey E Hallsworth ..Spinster...daughter of Thomas Hallsworth..profession Caulker
Witnesses Aurthur Hutchley and ..something.....Lilian Hutchley (first name of second witness illegible.........

I think this will rule out the Liverpool chemist connection but I need to further research !!!

Ok I have sent for Audrey and Johns' marriage certificate to verify parents names etc.... to be continued x

But Patricia- do you have John's marriage certificate to Audrey?

If we had the details on the marriage certificate we could possibly help more. It should give you his father's details, address at time of marriage, and witnesses.

If you don't have the marriage certificate you can order it from the GRO using the page and volume number. Certificates cost £9.25 including postage.

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/

Alan may not have been his biological child.

The husband, even if he died 10 years previously, is always put down as the father of his wife/widow's child.

Ok I need to absorb all this information! I am now convinced that John Girvan was probably born in 1899, not 1898 and John Girvan Snr. the Chemist was his Father.....too many things tie into the equation, for it not to be the same person.

The word Iron Moulder also was used on one document my Cousin has.....(that John Girvan, my paternal Grandfather remarried, I have always thought a reasonable assumption).

I know that the earlier marriage to Audrey, from which I descend, was not a happy time for Johns' family, or for the Hallsworth family. '

I remember being told that John turned up looking for Audrey, a few years after their estrangement in the early 1920's and was informed by Audreys' Brother William, that she had "emigrated",( rather than him meet her and their relationship blossom again)!

They did produce another Son Alan though! So they must have got together again...
Alan was born in 1925 registered at Shardlow 7b 916, his Father was named as John Girvan.

(as asked earlier Patricia, what were they below?)

Chris :)

greyghost Report 1 Mar 2017 00:23

Just a Journeyman or journeyman and a trade ? Who were the witnesses, it sometimes helps. Are you getting the b 1898 from the age on the Marriage certificate?
What was his Father's name and occupation? ALL details please.

(no idea of things!, but took a look on below)

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/

Chris :)

1911 Census

Residents of a house 47 in Percy Street (Wood Vale Ward, Antrim)
Girvan Agnes 45 Female Head of Family Church of Ireland Belfast City - Read and write - Widow - - - -
Girvan Robert 19 Male Son Church of Ireland Belfast City Apprentice Carpenter Read and write - Single - - - -
Girvan John 17 Male Son Church of Ireland Belfast City Labourer Unemployed Read and write - Single - - - -
Girvan William 15 Male Son Church of Ireland Belfast City Apprentice Iron moulder Read and write - Single - - - -
Gilmore Margaret 23 Female Relative Methodist Canada Sample Worker Read and write - Single - - - -
Kirkpatrick Andrew 28 Male Visitor Presbyterian Belfast City Wood Working Mechinist Read and write - Married - - - -
Kirkpatrick Ellen E 24 Female Visitor Presbyterian Canada - Read and write - Married - 2 1 1
Kirkpatrick Harriet 1 Female Visitor Presbyterian Belfast City - Cannot read -


(if below Birth)

Ireland Births 1864-1958 Transcription

First name(s) John
Last name Girvan
Registration year 1896
Registered quarter/year Apr - Jun 1896
Registration district Belfast
Volume 1
Page 338
County Antrim, Down

(no, looking at below perhaps!)

Ireland Deaths 1864 - 1958 Transcription

First name(s) John
Last name Girvan
Age at death 1
Birth year 1896
Registered year 1897
Registered quarter/year Apr - Jun 1897
Registration district Belfast

England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations)

GIRVAN- May Alexandra of 26 Frankby Road, Liverpool died 4 August 1976 Probate Liverpool 5 October £4348

GIRVAN- John of 26 Frankby Road, Liverpool died 7 February 1983 Probate Liverpool 28 March £28705

Death for John:
Name: John Girvan
Birth Date: 25 Oct 1899
Date of Registration: Mar 1983
Age at Death: 83
Registration district: Liverpool
Inferred County: Merseyside
Volume: 36 Page: 0685

Baptism confirms DOB:
Name: John Girvan
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 25 Oct 1899<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Baptism Date: 3 Nov 1899
Baptism Place: St. Matthew, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Father: John Girvan
Mother: Elizabeth Margaret
FHL Film Number: 1545929

(in case below tied in!)

Chris :)

GIRVAN, PAMELIA (MORGAN)
GRO Reference: 1878 M Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 08B Page 74

(after that news item, below)

Deaths Mar 1878 (>99%)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
GIRVAN John 0 Liverpool 8b 46
GIRVAN Pamelia 0 Liverpool 8b 47
GIRVAN Pauline Evangeline 24 Liverpool 8b 46


(also has 345, Scotland Road on below)

Gore's Directory of Liverpool & Birkenhead, 1900. [Part 3: Trade & Official Directories]

http://specialcollections.le.ac.uk/cdm/landingpage/collection/p16445coll4

Liverpool Mercury - Saturday 30 March 1878

Deaths:
GIRVAN- March 27 at 289 Scotland Road, Pamelia Evangeline Girvan, belovedwife of John Girvan, chemist; also Pamelia and John children of the above.

http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Search/indexp.html

(looking at results on above, I noticed below) (using John Girvan as Father for search)

Baptism: 15 Oct 1874 St Peter, Everton, Lancashire, England
Stanley John Peter Girvan - [Child] of John Girvan & Pamelia Evangeline
Abode: 289 Scotland Road
Occupation: Chemist
Baptised by: S. B. Sutton
Register: Baptisms 1870 - 1876, Page 59, Entry 470
Source: LDS Film 1656019

Chris :)

http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Search/indexp.html

(or, if anything on below)

http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/index.php

(on below newspaper article he was a moulder...)

29 October 1920 - Nottingham Evening Post - Nottingham, Nottinghamshire

PAWNED HER WEDDING RING. Summoning her husband, John Girvan, moulder Belfast, Derby to-day, for deserting her, Audrey Girvan said she had had to pawn her wedding ring to get food after defendant


http://rmhh.co.uk/occup/m.html

(Old Occupations, if as below, perhaps relates to Journeyman reference)

Moulder Made moulds for castings, brick making etc

(or)

Iron Moulder Made moulds for casting iron

Chris :)

Patricia- why do you think this John isn't yours? It seems to fit the details by Susan Gordon above- and the birth for his sister Maud on the 1911 also fits below.

1939 register:
Girvan Household 26 Frankby Road , Liverpool C.B., Lancashire, England
John Girvan 25 Oct 1899 Male Pharmacist Own Account Married 65 1
May A Girvan 05 Feb 1901 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married
Maud Girvan 25 Dec 1900 Female ? Machine Operator Liverpool Corporation Treasurers Department Single

Births:
GIRVAN, MAUD mother's maiden name: WALES
GRO Reference: 1901 M Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 08B Page 21

GIRVAN, JOHN mother's maiden name: WALES
GRO Reference: 1899 D Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 08B Page 43

GIRVAN, ELIZABETH MARGARET mother's maiden name: WALES
GRO Reference: 1896 M Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 08B Page 34
---------------------------------

First name(s) JOHN
Last name GIRVAN
Marriage quarter 3
Marriage year 1930
Spouse: May A Treanor
Spouse's last name Treanor
District West Derby
County Lancashire
Volume 8B Page 1026
--------------------------------------

England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations)

Girvan John of 289 Scotland Road, Liverpool chemist and druggist who died 29th April 1918 Probate Liverpool 31 May to Thomas Wales schoolmaster and Elizabeth Margaret Girvan widow

Looking to contact also Susan Gordon who wrote the below request in 2004

My grandmother was Elizabeth Margaret Girvan born in Liverpool January 6, 1896. Younger sister Maud and brother Jack. Her father was a Girvan from Scotland, name not known and opened a pharmacy in Scotland Road. Her mother was also called Elizabeth and worked as a teacher at a local Board School (presumably only until she married).
Elizabeth Margaret (Elsie) went to school at Blackburn House/Place near Rodney Street and later married James Buffel. They had one child Heather Maud, my mother.
Jack Girvan inherited the family pharmacy upon the death of my great grandfather.
Interested to know if this links to your Girvan tree in Liverpool.

Thank you so much for the replies I have received on this thread......my Father was the above mentioned Wilfred Everard Girvan. He never confessed to me the episode of being fined for not having his bike lamp on!!
I am aware of his Mother Audrey being re-married to John Woolley (whom the family called Jack) and of my Dad's half Sister Audrey junior. I met them all as a child infrequently (we lived in different parts of the country after the 2nd World War due to my Fathers' work).

There was a second son born to Audrey and John West Girvan sometime years after the account of the summons against J W Girvan. A birth certificate names them both as being parents to a child Alan, who was later put up for adoption. The friend mentioned who cared for my Father was Audreys' Brother and his wife Ethel.

I have met Alans' descendants and the resemblance to my Father during his youth and later life is undeniable and he had a birth cert.He did take his adoptive parents' name though.

am trying to locate the origins of my paternal grandfather. His name was John West Girvan,as recorded on my Father's birth-certificate in 1919. He was married to Audrey Hallsworth from Derby and they had one son Wilfred Everard Girvan (my Father), Soon after, he returned to Ireland we are told ,and the marriage ended.He has two grandchildren, my brother Andy and myself,3 gt.grandchildren & 5 gt.gt.children!
My brother and I often wonder if John remarried and we have step-relations someplace.I think John may have been in the services, when he met my grandmother, as years ago we had a photo of him ,in some sort of uniform in a hot country.(This has gone now but his resemblance to my father was unmistakable.)

http://www.geocities.ws/Heartland/4081/girvan_message_board.html

(above from google search)

Chris :)

England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007

Name:Audrey Ethel Woolley

Birth Date:11 Jun 1898

Date of Registration:Jun 1969

Age at Death:71

Registration district:Derby

Inferred County:Derbyshire

Volume:3a
Page:663

Relating to 1939 Address...

Chris :)

02 February 1940 - Derby Daily Telegraph - Derby, Derbyshire, England

IN MEMORIAM
In loving memory of dear mother, at rest February 2. 1939. From all at 27, Moor-drive. Alvaston.


Saturday 06 March 1943 - Derby Daily Telegraph - Derby, Derbyshire, England

When 12 cyclists were summoned at Derby County Police Court yesterday for lights offences the excuses revealed various attempts to overcome the battery shortage.

An Alvaston coppersmith Wilfred E. Girvan (23), Moor Drive, Alvaston. was fined 5s. for riding without a front light. He told the police that his lamp was in order, "but as there was no traffic about, I switched it off to save battery."

Derbyshire Advertiser, 30th Oct 1920

John Girvan, Belfast, was summoned by his wife Audrey Girvan, who alleged he had deserted her. Mrs Girvan stated that they were married in May 1919 and there was 1 child. When they were living at Draycott her husband told her to go and she went to Matlock in domestic service. She left the child with a friend of hers. Her husband had now gone to Ireland and had only sent her 10s which was despatched after issue of the summons against him, since he had been there. His money had been spent in horse racing. Defendant did not appear but sent a long letter which was handed to the Bench. An order for the defendant to pay his wife 40s per week and the costs of the case was made.

Marriages Mar 1930

Hallsworth Audrey E Woolley Derby 7b 895
Woolley John Hallsworth Derby 7b 895


1939 Register

Woolley Household (4 People)

27 Moor Drive , Shardlow R.D., Derbyshire, England

Audrey Ethel (A) Woolley 16 Jun 1898 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 362 2
John Woolley 30 May 1905 Male Iron Steel & Metal Dresser Married 362 1
Audrey Anne Woodhouse (Woolley) 18 Dec 1934 Female Under School Age Single 362 3
Wilfred Girvan 02 Jul 1919 Male Apprentice Coppersmith Single 362 4