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Hello Austin

On second look it is Hutchby and it will be Norah Lillian Hutchby......the writing is hard work I couldn't make out the Norah but can see it now who were witnesses..
John was 24 yrs and registered as being in Alvaston Derby on his marriage certificate, but I know his family had an Irish and Liverpool connection. There were siblings of John residing in Liverpool in the early 1920's and working in the Docks there.

I must revise my Granddads birth date it must be 1895 earlier than I imagined!

So at 24 years of age he was a little older than you first thought.

Born c1895- and the fact he went to Belfast after deserting his wife would suggest an Irish connection.

Patricia, I'm sorry if I've not grasped the information here, but how do you that siblings of John were working the Liverpool docks? Who were these siblings?

John and Audrey had a second child called Alan in 1925 during another getting together in their marriage.....Alan was given up for fostering by Audrey, due to John Girvan absenting himself again from their marriage. THIS CHILD ALAN WAS FOSTERED TO A PLACE IN HARROWGATE and then fostered and adopted to Liverpool.
A few years ago I was contacted by a cousin I didn't know existed to tell me that my Father Wilf and his Father Alan were Birth Brothers.....this we authenticated through paperwork and it comes to light that the Girvan family, who at that time lived in Liverpool were siblings of John West. It was due to their wish to bring Alan back into their family area and Alan was fostered and then adopted by good friends of the Girvans' and lived across the road from the Girvan family.
We just about have the makings of a good novel here!!

Sadly my Father Wilf and Alan his Birth Brother died without knowing of each others' existence.

It would appear John West Girvan did go back to Antrim but he has been untraceable by me

Any Address info. on that Cert.?...

Chris :)

Edits (things Ireland, seems Gervin is another spelling, probably others!)

What was the surname Alan went by?

Reply to AustinQ....
.Alan took his adoptive parents' name and became Alan Terence Foley.....it was one of Alans' sons who contacted me a few years ago, to say he and I were related and I have met him and his family (but like they, like me do not know what happened to John West Girvan)
The likeness of Alans' son to my own Father is staggering and apart from certification confirmation there is no doubt of the Girvan family likeness!
My Father Wilf is a "real" Girvan in genes, long ago he had a photo of John West Girvan and they were the "spit" of one another. Sadly this photo got lost.

Reply to Chris Ho
The residence address on the marriage Cert was given as Alvaston Derbyshire a region Audrey lived in all her life but of course John was a Journeyman Moulder and appears to have zig zagged between England and Ireland somewhat!

I'm still not quite understanding about the Girvan family in Liverpool- on what documentation does it show that the Girvan family, siblings of John, wanted Alan in Liverpool? Where does it mention they are siblings- and does it give the name of these siblings?

You say Alan was adopted by friends of the Girvans who lived across the road- what road was this?
------------------------------------------------

Despite the initial M, I believe this could be Alan in 1939:

Household 74 Filton Road , Huyton with Roby U.D., Lancashire, England

Closed record
Alan M Foley 27 Jun 1925 Male Shop Boy Single
Mary V Sanders (Foley) 19 May 1927 Female At School Single
-----------------------------------------

Fits these deaths:

First name(s) ALAN TERENCE
Last name FOLEY
Gender Male
Birth date 27 June 1925
Death quarter 4
Death year 1992
District Knowsley
Register number 1292
County Lancashire
Volume 36 Page 154

First name(s) MARY VERONICA
Last name SANDERS
Gender Female
Birth date 19 May 1927
Death quarter 1
Death year 2004
District Knowsley
District number 023/1
Register number D52
Entry number 085
Date of registration mm/yy 0104
County Lancashire
-------------------------------------------------

So it would appear the friends of the Girvans that adopted Alan were this couple:

Marriage:

First name(s) AMY M
Last name PEMBROOK
Marriage quarter 2
Marriage year 1920
Spouse: John E A Foley
Spouse's last name Foley
District West Derby
County Lancashire
Volume 8B Page 1439

I agree with that info.....except Alan Terence Foleys wife is still alive and near to 90 yrs, so you may have happened upon another lady of similar name?I will look up some info later today ..thank you for your interest
Regards Pat

Patricia- I've made no mention of Alan's wife?

The Mary Veronica Foley born 1927 (that later married Mr Sanders), looks to have been the daughter of Alan's adoptive parents. Alan and Mary V are living at the same address together in 1939.

This is her birth:

First name(s) MARY V
Last name FOLEY
Birth year 1927
Birth quarter 2
Mother's last name Pembroke
District Liverpool
County Lancashire
Volume 8B Page 204

Ok sorry my error! As far as I believe they adopted because they had no children...interesting maybe they had a Daughter after adopting Alan...
the name Churchdown Road has been mentioned in the past in association with this Saga?

You don't say in what way it has been mentioned- but just posting as a possible link: Name is Girvan on original.

1939 register:

147 Churchdown Road , Liverpool C.B., Lancashire, England

Henry Gisvan 04 Jan 1892 Male Office Steward Married
Elizabeth Gisvan 31 Oct 1892 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married
Elsie Woolvine (Gisvan) 23 Mar 1923 Female ??? Single
3 closed records

The surname of this family on the actual image could be Girvan.

Household (3 People)
147 Churchdown Road , Liverpool C.B., Lancashire, England

Elizabeth Gisvan
DOB 31 Oct 1892
SEX Female
OCCUPATION Unpaid Domestic Duties
MARITAL STATUS Married
SCHEDULE 84
SCHEDULE SUB NUMBER 2

Henry Gisvan
DOB 04 Jan 1892
SEX Male
OCCUPATION Office Steward
MARITAL STATUS Married
SCHEDULE 84
SCHEDULE SUB NUMBER 1

Elsie Woolvine (Gisvan)
DOB 23 Mar 1923
SEX Female
OCCUPATION ???
MARITAL STATUS Single
SCHEDULE 84
SCHEDULE SUB NUMBER 3
Ref: RG101/4395F/008/13 Letter Code: NICW
© Findmypast Ltd


3 closed records.

Sorry AustinQ. I was tidying up the record while you were posting :-)

I agree Rootgatherer- name is Girvan on original

This couple:

First name(s) HENRY
Last name GIRVAN
Marriage quarter 1
Marriage year 1920
Spouse: Elizabeth Grisdale
Spouse's last name Grisdale
District West Derby
County Lancashire
Country England
Volume 8B Page 923

Elsie's occupation on image is Printing and bookbinding (something, maybe servant?)

1901 England,Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
12, Willoughby Street, West Derby, Lancashire, England

Frederick Girvan Head Married Male 52 1849 Cork Cutter Whitehaven, Cumberland, England
Elizabeth Girvan Wife Married Female 52 1849 - Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Minnie Girvan Daughter Single Female 15 1886 - Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Henry Girvan Son Single Male 9 1892 - Liverpool, Lancashire, England

Print transcription
First name(s) Henry Hugh
Last name Girvan
Gender Male
Birth year 1892
Birth place Mildred ST
Baptism year 1895
Baptism date 27 Aug 1895
Residence Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Place Liverpool
County Lancashire
Country England
Father's first name(s) Frederick
Father's last name Girvan
Mother's first name(s) Elizabeth
Mother's last name -
Record set England Births & Baptisms 1538-1975
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Births & baptisms
Collections from Great Britain
Index (c) IRI. Used by permission of FamilySearch Intl

Not sure that's the correct Henry Rootgatherer-

His birth date on the 1939 is 4th Jan 1892, but the baptism has birth date of 29th January:

Liverpool, England, Catholic Baptisms
Name: Henricus Girvan
Birth Date: 29 Jan 1892
Baptism Date: 24 Jun 1904
Parish: St Anne, Lancashire, England
Father's name: Frederici Girvan
Mother's name: Elizabethae Rattery

England, Select Births and Christenings
Name: Henry Hugh Girvan
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 29 Jan 1892
Birth Place: Mildred St
Baptism Date: 27 Aug 1895
Baptism Place: St Peters, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Father: Frederick Girvan
Mother: Elizabeth