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Thank you safe c will try that :-D

Quote

" do you know how I would find Matildas mothers name"

This could be Matilda's bith reg:


Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
WEST, MATILDA -
GRO Reference: 1905 D Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 145

As the mother's maiden name is recorded with *
this would indicate that Matilda was illegitimate and the mother's maiden name was also West

Can't see a Matilda West c1905 in Birmingham in the 1911 census but there is this Tilley West


Tilley West
England and Wales Census, 1911
Name Tilley West
Event Type Census
Event Date 1911
County Warwickshire
Parish Birmingham
Sub-District All Saints
Registration District Birmingham
Gender Female
Age 5
Birthplace Birm
Record Type Household


I don't have access to the census so can't see the full details, maybe someone else could post them for you.

The 1911 census that Tiggit refers to

1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
7 Devon Place Devonshire Street Birmingham, Birmingham, Warwickshire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Occupation Age Birth year Birth place
James West Father Married Male Baker 62 1849 Adderbury Oxon
Elizabeth Askem Mother Married Female - 56 1855 Enfield Lork
Arther West Son Single Male Tube Drawers 24 1887 Birmingham
James West Son Single Male Tube Drawers 18 1893 Birmingham
Henry West Son - Male School 14 1897 Birmingham
George West Grandson - Male - 3 1908 Birm
Tilley West Granddaughter - Female School 5 1906 Birm

James and Elizabeth have been married 32 years and had 9 children, 6 of whom are still alive, 3 have died.

Elizabeth born Enfield Lock I think (an area in the borough of Enfield, north London)

------------------------------------------------
Probably this marriage looking at how Elizabeth's name is written on the census

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Dec 1880 (>99%)
ASKEW Elizabeth Ann Aston 6d 494 <<<<<<<<<
Gibbons Rosena Matilda Aston 6d 494
Hopkins Harry Aston 6d 494 Scan available
WEST James Aston 6d 494 <<<<<<<<<<<

James and Elizabeth had a daughter named as Tilley on the 1891 census - probably this birth registration, which may help to decide that the younger Tilley was also a Matilda.

Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
WEST, MATILDA ASKEW
GRO Reference: 1881 D Quarter in ASTON Volume 06D Page 299

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Heath Street, Birmingham, Warwickshire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
James West Head Married Male 42 1849 Baker Adderbury, Oxfordshire, England
Elizabeth West Wife Married Female 33 1858 - Enfield Lock
Tilly West Daughter - Female 9 1882 Scholar Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
Anne West Daughter - Female 7 1884 Scholar Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
Arthur West Son - Male 4 1887 - Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
Elizabeth West Daughter - Female 2 1889 - Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
Lilly West Daughter - Female 0 1891 - Birmingham, Warwickshire, England

And a child born before the marriage

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
3/, 9, Henley Street, Aston, Warwickshire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
James West Head Married Male 31 1850 Baker Adderbury, Oxfordshire, England
Elizth West Wife Married Female 24 1857 - Enfield Lock, Middlesex, England
Kate Askew West Daughter Single Female 4 1877


ASKEW, KATE GILBERT -
GRO Reference: 1877 J Quarter in ASTON Volume 06D Page 323

Put these free to use sites on your list of places to look (amongst others). I did highlight some for you as I posted findings.

https://www.freebmd.org.uk - Births, deaths, marriages from Q3 1837 when registration began to around 1973 at present (on going project which will go to 1983 in the end). Mothers maiden name on births only shown from Q3 1911. Ages at death not shown until 1860. You need one of the commercial websites to take you up to 2006/7

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp - you'll need to register, but free to do so. A recent initiative has seen mmn showing from 1837 onwards to 1915 and ages at death from the same, although at present the glitch is that months are not shown.

https://familysearch.org - many records on line from the Mormon Church. These are sparse after 1900, but go further back than "official" records into the realms of Old Parish Registers

Master these favourites and then there are lots more to find.

Not many of us use Genes Reunited's records. You can keep a tree here and ask questions with the basic membership, but have look at Find My Past or Ancestry.

Try a look at this thread on Genes naming useful sites to look at. A bit long, but once you've got the basics .......
http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/genealogy_chat/thread/1162069

Thank you tiggit and again grey ghost I'd been thinking about ancestry definitely think it's worth a go after all the very useful information that you have all found

You can usually find 2 or 4 week free trials for the commercial sites. You'll have to give credit card details - just remember to cancel before the free time is up.

Hi having a little trouble on Matilda West and Joseph Holloway marriage it says spouse fathers name is Frederick West but the info that tiggit and greyghost have sent has a different father's name very confused please could anybody help thank you

Hi Amanda,

It looks like Matilda West was illegitimate and was the daughter of one of the daughters of James and Elizabeth West. Sometimes people gave a father's name when they married to cover up thier illegitimacy which could well be the case with Matilda.
What was the occupation for Frederick West and if you have the marriage certificate for Joseph and Matilda please can you post ALL the details.

Tiggit

Looking at the 1911 census for James and Elizabeth West it says that they had 9 children 6 alive only by 1911

Daughters:

Kate born c1877 born Kate Gilbert Askew
Matilda born 1881
Gertrude Annie born 1883
Elizabeth Ann born 1889
Lily born 1890

Sons:

Frederick Arthur born 1885
Jabez born 1887
James born 1893

Henry born c1897 (as per 1911 census can't see an actual birth reg though)

Possible deaths for the 3 children:

Frederick Arthur West aged 0 in Aston in 1885
Lily West aged 1 in Birmingham in 1892
Matilda West aged 21 in Birmingham in 1903

It looks like Kate West (born Askew) married John Henry Cotton on 1st Aug 1897 in Birmingham.

So as Matilda and Lily had both died and Kate had married before 1905 it looks like your Matilda's mum was either Gertrude Annie or Elizabeth Ann West.

Possible marriage for Gerturde Annie West, 1907 Birmingham to either Sidney Smith or George Firkins, other bride Clara Johns. (There is a George James and Clara Firkins living in Warwickshire in 1911 census so looks like Gertrude married Sidney Smith)

Interestingly there is a marriage for an Elizabeth West to a Frederick Barnsley 27th Aug 1911 St Chrysoston Birmingham with father James West.

Just thinking outside the box, maybe Matilda was Elizabeth's daughter and she gave the name of her step-father Frederick when she married.


While looking around the Askew line I foung Kate West visiting the home of Joseph and Margaret E Swadkins and family in the 1891 census in Nechells Warwickshire.
Joseph Swadkins married Margaret Eliza Askew in Birmingham in 1879 (see census details below)

http://tinyurl.com/hk3pyt8

Margaret Eliza Askew was the twin sister of Elizabeth Askew they were born in 1856 and were the daughters of George Askew and Susan Purcell/Parcell

Parents in 1871 census:

http://tinyurl.com/hvqyenn


Susan and children in 1861 census( looks like Margaret is recorded as Eliza):

http://tinyurl.com/zk895bw


George Askew and Susan Parcell were married in Edmonton in 1855

Tiggit

Hi I do not have a marriage certificate but somebody posted this for the marriage of Matilda

England Marriages 1538-1973 Transcription
First name(s) Joseph George
Last name Holloway
Name note -
Age 23
Marriage year 1924
Marriage date 11 Oct 1924
Marriage place Birmingham
Father's first name(s) Joseph Maline
Father's last name Spittle
Spouse's first name(s) Matilda
Spouse's last name West
Spouse's birth year 1904
Spouse's birth date 1904
Spouse's father's first name(s) Frederick
Spouse's father's last name West
Residence Birmingham, Warwick, England
County Warwickshire

Also just rereading the info posted this can't be the same Matilda as it is the wrong birth date the Matilda I am looking for was not born in 1881 she was born October 25th 1905

Reading through, it looks like Matilda b. 1881 is probably the aunt your Matilda b. 1905

To confirm Matilda's mother, you really should buy a copy of her birth certificate. From the information posted, it would appear that Elizabeth West who married Frederick Barnsley in 1911 is Matilda's mother and Matilda gave her stepfather's Christian name on her marriage registration. To be sure of an accurate tree I would buy Matilda's marriage and birth certificates.

Thank you rootgatherer will try that