Find Ancestors

My great Grandfather above ,was born in Sudbury (suffolk ) workhouse.
Mother shown as Elizabeth Salmon.seems to be known as Betsey Salmon before, though difficult to prove.Mother seems to have died,Christopher lived in Lawshall, then Kirtling. Where he worked at the Tower. Died in 1918.
I have seen gravestone.
Does anybody know of this family.
Peter

1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Cottage, Lawshall, Sudbury, Suffolk, England

Learn more
Print transcription View image
Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Henry Musk Head Married Male 37 1814 Labourer Lawshall, Suffolk, England
Transcription
Marria Musk Wife Married Female 30 1821 - Lawshall, Suffolk, England
Transcription
Henry Musk Son - Male 8 1843 - Lawshall, Suffolk, England
Transcription
Susan Musk Daughter - Female 4 1847 - Lawshall, Suffolk, England
Transcription
Christopher Salmon Nephew - Male 4 1847 - Sudbury, Suffolk, England

????

Marriages Dec 1870 (>99%)
Anness Jane Victoria Bury St Edmunds 4a 1017
Ranson Ellen Bury St Edmunds 4a 1017
SARMIN Christopher Bury St. E. 4a 1017
Smith George Bury St Edmunds 4a 1017

peter
do you have the marriage cert
or birth cert ?

from gro site no mothers name given

SALMON, CHRISTOPHER  RANSON  
-  

GRO Reference: 1846  S Quarter in SUDBURY  Volume 12  Page 471
 

England & Wales marriages 1837-2008 Transcription

Learn more
Print transcription View image
First name(s) HENRY
Last name MUSK
Marriage quarter 4
Marriage year 1839
Registration month -
MarriageFinder™ HENRY MUSK married one of these people
MARIA SALMON, MARIA FORD, ELIZABETH DEEKS
District SUDBURY
District number -
County Suffolk
Country England
Volume 12
Page 921
Record set England & Wales marriages 1837-2008
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Marriages & divorces
Collections from Great Britain

Could this be his mother's death:-

First name(s) ELIZABETH
Last name SALMON
Gender Female
Birth day -
Birth month -
Birth year -
Age -
Death quarter 3
Death year 1848
District SUDBURY
County Suffolk
Volume 12
Page 307
Country England
Record set England & Wales deaths 1837-2007

Kath. x

I would expect that his middle names gives a clue to his father's identity. Lots of illegitimate children were given their father's surname as a middle name.

Kath. x

If you check 'Search All Member Trees' (top right of page here, under 'Search') you will see some names shared by other Genes Members.

(below comes up on google search)

Chris :)

http://historyofsuffolk.co.uk/cosford/brett/d50.html

John SALMON was born on 14 Oct 1798 in Brettenham, Suffolk, England. He was baptised on 22 Dec 1798 in Brettenham, Suffolk, England. He was a Labourer between 1820 and 1829 in Lawshall, Suffolk, England. He died in 1830 in Lawshall, Suffolk, England. He was buried on 20 Mar 1830 in Lawshall, Suffolk, England. His aged on the burial was 32. Parents: Benjamin SALMON and Martha RANSON.
He was married to Maria STEFF on 19 Oct 1819 in Hitcham, Suffolk, England. Children were: Maria SALMON, John SALMON, Betsey SALMON, Benjamin SALMON, Mahala SALMON, William SALMON.


http://squirrellresearchgroup.org/familygroup.php?familyID=F4158&tree=SQUIRRELL

SALMON, Betsey
Born 25 Oct 1823 Lawshall, Suffolk, England
Died 09 Jul 1848 Parish Church of All Saints, Lawshall, Suffolk, England


Suffolk Baptism Index 1538-1911 Transcription (Find My Past)

First name(s) Betsey
Last name Salmon
Baptism year 1823
Baptism date 27 Oct 1823
Parish All Saints
Place Lawshall
Father's first name(s) John
Mother's first name(s) Maria
Father's occupation Labourer
Residence Lawshall
Notes bn 25 Oct; pb; recd 23 Nov / late STIFF

Thanks for the replies.
I have Christophers birth certificate from Sudbury workhouse showing Elizabeth as mother with x mark.
Apparently most Sudbury workhouse records are destroyed.
I realised father probably a Ranson,,very common Suffolk name.
I found Christopher living with Betsey (Elizabeth ?)salmon,s sister Maria on census. As nephew and boarder.
I suppose going in workhouse with baby unmarried must have been difficult which is perhaps why she changed name?
Found all the other records for Betsey brothers and sisters and those before.
It's just not being able to tie down the workhouse and name changes that throws me unless I am missing something.!
Thanks again Peter.

Looking at Betsey 1841 (Lawshall) there was a Married James Ranso(n m?)

(not to say he is in the 'picture', lol, just an observation)

Edits (James Ransom/Ann Wheeler Marriage 1835 Lawshall)

Chris :)

(Maria Musk is in newspapers 1869, stealing meat from Bury market)

Found the Maria Musk newspaper article.
Meat and cloth.
I think she is named in another case as well.
When it says show article. I click and nothing happens.
Thanks for the help.
Peter

Not sure how Genes works for it's newspapers...(seems a lot easier on Find My Past, and below)

http://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/


(might be interesting to see that 1848 Death Cert.)

Chris :)

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/contents/legaltermsandconditions

(you could contact GR, by means right at bottom of page!, if they could advise newspapers)

As "Elizabeth" made her (x) mark on Christopher's birth registration she probably couldn't read. I would think that it's possible that she never changed her name from Betsey but the person recording the entries in the workhouse records just assumed that Betsey was a diminutive form of her birth name and recorded her name as Elizabeth.

Thanks for the reply.
That makes sense and I suppose research is never quite a certain science.
Peter

I wouldn't be too certain that in this case the middle name related to Christopher's father (though it often does), as it shows above that his mother's grandmother is named above as Martha RANSON. The name could possibly have passed down through the family.

Dea x

Thanks for all these replies above. After a few years off, I have resumed family tree again .So these above puzzles remain puzzles , I am also on Ancestry as well. I had 3months trial for £1 ! Which site is best can't afford both. I did DNA test with them.

Either Ancestry or FindMyPast - if you want to pay a subscription to a site.

But there are lots of free sites too, such as FreeBMD (for England / Wales), Freereg (UK), FreeCen (mainly UK) , FamilySearch (international) - to name but three

Almost none of the helpers on these boards use GR for research.

You'll never know who Christopher's father was, as he's not named on the birth cert.

As far as Betsey/Elizabeth is concerned, the info posted by Chris on 14 Dec 2016 at 08:03 is probably as good as you're going to get.

Betsey/Elizabeth's death - previously posted by Kath, but here showing her age:

SALMON, ELIZABETH 23
GRO Reference: 1848 S Quarter in SUDBURY Volume 12 Page 307


Betsey Salmon
in the 1841 England Census
Name: Betsey Salmon
Age: 15
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1826
Gender: Female
Where born: Suffolk, England
Civil Parish: Lawshall
Hundred: Babergh
County/Island: Suffolk
Country: England
Street Address:
Occupation:
View image
Registration District: Sudbury
Sub-registration District: Hartest
Neighbors:
Piece: 1011
Book: 18
Page Number: 1
Household Members:
Name Age
Betsey Salmon 15

She's a servant in the household of George Last.

Check out your local library. Many of those that had Ancestry Library on their computers allowed library card holders to access it from home during the Covid pandemic WFH time. I checked ours yesterday and it still does.

A couple of the newspaper reports on Maria, as previously mentioned -


CHARGE OF STEALING MEAT AT HAWSTEAD
... CHARGE OF STEALING MEAT AT HAWSTEAD. Maria Musk, a middle-aged woman of respectable appearance, was charged with having stolen a piece of beef and cloth, the property Willoughby Masim, Hawstead, on January 27th. . On the day in question the prosecutor, an InnKeeper at Hartest, was going home from Bury market, stopped at the Metcalfe Arms at Hawstead. there, a round of beef was taken from his cart, covering his loss when he had gone about half a mile he returned to the public house and landlord of his loss. Search was made, and the . . . pulled from under the clothes of the prisoner, was in the taproom, a bundle which contained among other things the missing round of beet . . . The defence, merely said she did not . . . guiltv and the chaiman sentenced her to four months hard labour.
Published: Saturday 27 March 1869
Newspaper: The Suffolk Chronicle; or Weekly General Advertiser & County Express



Maria Musk, 46, was charged with stealing a pair of stays, the property of Ann Pointer, at Bury St Edmund's, on the 27th of Jauuary1869. Mr. Mills prosecuted. The prosecutor, a dress-maker at Brandon, was employed to make a pair of stays for Mrs. Shillito. Barrow, which were sent by the carrier to the Kings Head, Bury who put them in the Barrow carrier's cart. John Rosbrook, the Barrow carrier, proved receipt of the parcel from Barker, the Brandon carrier. He put the stays in the cart, and covered them up. He afterwards missed the parcel from the cart, the prisoner being in the yard at the time. The prisoner was arrested on another charge, and the stays were found on her.. . . The prisoner, in answer to the charge, said she bought them of a woman in Guildhall-street, for 5s. The Jury found the prisoner guilty, and the Recorder sentenced her to eight months' hard labour.
Published: Tuesday 30 March 1869
Newspaper: Bury and Norwich Post
County: Suffolk, England

She seems to have been having quite a spree, being in both the Metcalfe Arms in Hawstead, and the Kings Head, Bury, on the same day.


There's also a report in the Ipswich Journal on 21 January 1865, of somebody having "assaulted Maria Musk, wife of John Musk" - but the transcription is so garbled that I can't make out what it says -
e.g .-

"Maria Musk said: On the 9th cit Jlanuary lest I wa-ti .,'fln ts. wardw the Cennilery, lin itelete. .Tanii-4 Alwar caris after ionp.,at lie asketI me If I Nsinld go amu drink ?? ltnil I tot~ 111 liii not ?? to ..."